3-axis CNC in Germany

swa

swa
Hello MASSO Community

and greetings from Dresden, Germany. We would like to present you our current CNC project. It is a modified CNC from 1998
that had a Siemens Sinumerik control and now uses a MASSO G3. We bought it from a school near our town for a very decent
price in terms of the components installed. Involved are my good friend Carsten (metal cutting mechanic) and myself, Simon
(electronic engineering technician).
In our workshop we mainly work with wood. We can turn, saw, grind, drill and now also mill.

Axes:

We are reusing the three SIMOSTEP 1FL3061 Drive Units.
Motors are:

2x Berger Lahr VDRM3910/50 LWC (Y-, Z-Axis)
1x Siemens 1FL3061-0AC31-0BG0 (X-Axis)
Those are 3-phase-stepper motors. Seemingly rare.

The IDC connector on the side of MASSO is used to run the 5V optical couplers of the SIMOSTEP Drive Units
directly with the 5V TTL signals.
AxisXYZ
Pulses per Revolution10k10k10k
Distance per Revolution125mm125mm50mm
Resolution0.0125mm/step0.0125mm/step0.005mm/step
Gearingmechanical(10:1); tooth belt(48:22)mechanical(10:1); tooth belt(48:22)ball screw(5mm pitch); tooth belt(1:1)
Feedrate5000mm/min5000mm/min1200mm/min
Acceleration350mm/sec 350mm/sec 300mm/sec
min. Travel-1155mm-745mm-165mm
max. Travel+65mm+65mm+65mm
yet to come(Acceleration must be re-evaluated after installation of the 25kg spindle), Backlash, etc.)

Spindle:

We are simply using the existing hand router that we inherited. As wood is already our preferred medium it works fairly well for now.
In the midterm we want to use a 4.5kW BT30 Air CNC Spindle with ATC support.

Currently, a spindle conversion is taking place from the inherited router to a 4.5kW air-cooled spindle. When the conversion is complete this section will be updated.

Work Area:

1220mmx810mmx230mm (X,Y,Z)

Safety Concept:

Our safety circuit uses a PNOZ Z Category 2 EN 954-1 relay. This simplifies our safety circuit enormously as each
of our axes uses a SCHMERSAL limit switch at both ends. All these end positions are independent of our soft ends.
In series with our emergency stop next to the monitor and the handwheel, they trip the relay and disable the drives
and signal emergency stop to MASSO. If the emergency stop is activated, the cause must be eliminated and the
emergency stop must be acknowledged at a button on the control cabinet. Then the actuators and MASSO are both
released again via the relay. Acknowledging the emergency stop is quite common in our special machines.
The two door sensors (left and front) are also wired in series and connected to the door sensor input.

Future Projects:

-Spindle
-Toolsetter
-Automatic Tool Changer
-Vacuum table, 4x pneumatic cylinders for fast workpiece alignment, integration into our central suction, fourth and fifth axis ;)
 

Attachments

  • overall.jpg
    overall.jpg
    2.7 MB · Views: 136

keymont

keymont
Very nice! Welcome to the community! This must be the most detailed introduction post of them all! German Engineering, even while just saying hello - awesome!



FYI, both of my machines use a 4KW air cooled spindle and they go through pretty much any wood like a hot knife through butter. Have fun!
 

swa

swa
Thank you @keymont for the kind words! We are also happy about the swift integration of MASSO into our system.
If there are any further questions about our project, please write to us. The project allows us both to escape a little
from our daily work. Hence our affinity for wood ;)

In this forum, it seems that quite often a new thread is opened on the same topic because the machines are very different.
Therefore, we will probably announce our progress mostly as a change in our first post.
 

swa

swa
Here is a brief overview of the upcoming spindle rebuild. The choice fell on a RATTM Motor RTMD120X103-30-24/4.5 BT30 380V 400-800Hz 12000-24000rpm 3,6-4,3Nm 4,5kW(S1) 5,4kW(S6) spindle and a 5.5KW Fuling Brand DZB300 Series VFD.
Initial startup is following @cncnutz's example in the disassembled state without MASSO using a potentiometer. If so far all functions are present the installation takes place. Afterwards we report of course on the first results.

At the top right of the first picture, you can catch a glimpse of the possibly following 4th and 5th axis.
 

Attachments

  • 2021_04_10_18_08_14.jpg
    2021_04_10_18_08_14.jpg
    3.1 MB · Views: 135
  • 2021_04_10_18_08_20.jpg
    2021_04_10_18_08_20.jpg
    3.2 MB · Views: 124

jho

JHO
I will be following this build, i'm thinking about this exact spindle some time now.

Having an ATC spindle would be so nice, it's much more efficient and productive.



are you going to place some sort of review?
 

maxq

MaxQ
Hello SWA,

Should the cable that carries the 3 phase power from a VFD to a motor always be a shielded cable? I ask because I recently wired a VFD to power my manual knee mill and I used unshielded SOOW 10/4 AWG. It is however completely contained in flexible metal conduit which is grounded to the mains. Will this cause interference for my Masso-controlled CNC plasma table?



I like your build and look forward to any updates.



Thank you kindly,

Anthony
 

Attachments

  • VFD-Enclosure.jpg
    VFD-Enclosure.jpg
    194.6 KB · Views: 93

swa

swa
Dear JHO and Anthony,

Thank you for your interest in our project.
@jho We have already found some missing and insufficient information in the spindle documentation translated from Chinese. We will be happy to report to you when the installation is completed.
@anthony There are a number of reasons to shield motor cables. But you can also do it wrong by creating loops. Please always connect earth potential and shields in a star configuration at a central point. Or directly at the intended connection on the frequency converter. If you build rings, this can sometimes cause problems.
Please also make sure to use cable suitable for drag chains. There the shielding and isolation is specially made to be flexible. With normal cable it will go wrong sooner or later and then you are looking for the error.
We promise to keep you informed.
 

swa

swa
Please excuse the lack of information in our last post. We are expiriencing some problems with the spindle which mainly affect the quality of the air required for the tool gripping and release mechanism as well as the sealing air. We have considered various oil, water and particle separator solutions and our choice was a central maintenance unit and a membrane filter/dryer. For now we use a 5/2 way valve for the grab and release process and two additional pressure reducers and filters. This part is roughly specified but not explained in the spindle documentation. You have to try the three pneumatic connections, since they are not described, and you will hopefully don't find out that the spindle was saved by the frequency inverter while the tool gripper clamp is slowly opening during operation and the motor is slowly blocking due to wrong pneumatic tubing. In addition the spindle is permanently supplied with overpressure so that no particles can get in. All this now for the time being on our test stand as well as for later. Now the spindle receives air supply in quality that a dentist could work with and we dare to run the spindle.
Please have patience with us. Greetings to the whole MASSO community
 

sirdag

Sirdag
Dear SWA,,

I just bought the exact same spindle and it looks awsome... however the install documentation is horrible!

Would you have a simple drawing of wiring from the big connector to the VFD and from the small connector to the VFD?
also...
nowhere does it show which of the three air connectors are for what and how much pressure to use!!

Plus... It came with the FULING 5.5kw VFD DBZ300 series...

If you have this or any other documentation, it would be very much appreciated....

I also bought a MASSO G3 touch... this will be to update my 4' x 4' router system... i will then fabricate
a linear tool holder for the ATC.... I have been saving and waiting for this for a long time!!

I am retired and enjoying CNC'ing with all my free time.

Thank You very much

SirDag ( Phil Dalgleish )
Grand Rapids, MI USA
 
Last edited:

cncnutz

CNCnutz
Staff member
Hi Phil

Note that using this diagram in no way removes the need to follow the step by step instruction of the MASSO VFD install video starting with Step 1 of correctly configuring the VFD and testing it before connecting to MASSO.
The drawing is based on reading of the manual, the default S1 & S2 input assignment and SW4 switch settings.

Cheers Peter

1667519038252.png

 

sirdag

Sirdag
Hi Phil

Note that using this diagram in no way removes the need to follow the step by step instruction of the MASSO VFD install video starting with Step 1 of correctly configuring the VFD and testing it before connecting to MASSO.
The drawing is based on reading of the manual, the default S1 & S2 input assignment and SW4 switch settings.

Cheers Peter

View attachment 5041

Thank You Peter!

I still have a few pins to figure out on the RATTM 4.5kw spindle... the doco for it is got me confused.

It seems like such a simple thing to create an accurate pic of what voltage/connection/wire size to hook
up the spindle without letting out the magic smoke!

I appreciate your assistance and (blush) i completely missed the MASSO doco on this..... oops my bad....

Have a great day!
Phil Dalgleish
 

kenzo67

New member
Hi masso community

This is kenzo from Orlando Florida I've been reading and looking for a CNC controller for a while. And I have not found any luck for what I'm looking for. until I became a member 15 minutes ago🤷‍♂️ I found Mr SWA talking about his 1998 CNC machine with siemens sinumarik. I have a 1998 HYUNDAY HIT-8S lathe with SIEMENS SIMODRIVE 611 . The machi is 240v with a 3phase spindle motor it has a 3phase conveter. My Question is can i use masso cnc control in my machin? the reason why I asked is because in the pictures I didn't see the drivers. Can I use the cnc masso control with ( Simodrive 611 )
 

Attachments

  • 20221113_125913.jpg
    20221113_125913.jpg
    2.2 MB · Views: 43
  • 20221113_125849.jpg
    20221113_125849.jpg
    1.3 MB · Views: 44

GlennH

New member
Hi masso community

This is kenzo from Orlando Florida I've been reading and looking for a CNC controller for a while. And I have not found any luck for what I'm looking for. until I became a member 15 minutes ago🤷‍♂️ I found Mr SWA talking about his 1998 CNC machine with siemens sinumarik. I have a 1998 HYUNDAY HIT-8S lathe with SIEMENS SIMODRIVE 611 . The machi is 240v with a 3phase spindle motor it has a 3phase conveter. My Question is can i use masso cnc control in my machin? the reason why I asked is because in the pictures I didn't see the drivers. Can I use the cnc masso control with ( Simodrive 611 )
Kenzo
I would say you could not control the Simodrive with the masso .The simodrive uses analogue signals to control position. most likely you can update the servo drives to newer units that accepts the standard step and direction pulses from the masso or most other motion controllers. You would need to identify your servo motors so you can get compatible drives.
Regards
Glenn
 

sirdag

Sirdag
Here is a brief overview of the upcoming spindle rebuild. The choice fell on a RATTM Motor RTMD120X103-30-24/4.5 BT30 380V 400-800Hz 12000-24000rpm 3,6-4,3Nm 4,5kW(S1) 5,4kW(S6) spindle and a 5.5KW Fuling Brand DZB300 Series VFD.
Initial startup is following @cncnutz's example in the disassembled state without MASSO using a potentiometer. If so far all functions are present the installation takes place. Afterwards we report of course on the first results.

At the top right of the first picture, you can catch a glimpse of the possibly following 4th and 5th axis.
Sirs:
Do you have a diagram of how you connected the sensor wires? I have looked all over the internet and emailed the seller of my spindle many times and they send the same lame manual that doesn't cover how to connect.

also a diagram of how you connected the wires 1 and 2 of the 11 wire connector?

I have the exact same spindle and vfd you have. My spindle is running and 12v fan is running.

Thank You very much,
SirDag
 

ohsnapfit

Member
Here is a brief overview of the upcoming spindle rebuild. The choice fell on a RATTM Motor RTMD120X103-30-24/4.5 BT30 380V 400-800Hz 12000-24000rpm 3,6-4,3Nm 4,5kW(S1) 5,4kW(S6) spindle and a 5.5KW Fuling Brand DZB300 Series VFD.
Initial startup is following @cncnutz's example in the disassembled state without MASSO using a potentiometer. If so far all functions are present the installation takes place. Afterwards we report of course on the first results.

At the top right of the first picture, you can catch a glimpse of the possibly following 4th and 5th axis.
Hey! I am using that spindle!!
 

ohsnapfit

Member
Sirs:
Do you have a diagram of how you connected the sensor wires? I have looked all over the internet and emailed the seller of my spindle many times and they send the same lame manual that doesn't cover how to connect.

also a diagram of how you connected the wires 1 and 2 of the 11 wire connector?

I have the exact same spindle and vfd you have. My spindle is running and 12v fan is running.

Thank You very much,
SirDag
I think I replied to your post somewhere else, take the front cover off, it will be obvious, don't trust their diagram for the signal level connector.
 
Top