auto tool zero issue?

routertrav

routertrav
I set up my auto tool zero tonight. After homing the machine, it starts the auto tool zero routine. I am sure this is not supposed to happen, as I do not have a tool in the machine, or any programs loaded. Any ideas?
 

masso-support

MASSO Support
Staff member
in auto tool zero the machine will always try to reference the height of the tool after homing, this is very normal and is required as the controller needs to calculate the length of the tool.
 

routertrav

routertrav
I can understand that, after I load a program and hit cycle start for the first time. I of course have already manually set the z-zero for the first tool manually. My issue is when I first power on the machine and do my initial homing sequence. At that point, there is no program loaded, and no tool in my spindle. Sorry for my confusion. I am coming from years of Mach3 use, and this is very different.

I will try to better describe what I am seeing. I turn on controller, and home the machine, which is the front most left corner. My touch plate is pretty much in the front most right corner. So I home after initial startup, and it then goes to my tool touch position. I let the collet nut contact the touch plate. After that, the z axis got to its home position, but that is it. Now my spindle is in the opposite corner from its home position. I guess this is ok, as my machine home position is already captured.

What is the controller looking for. That initial touch off, after homing the machine for the first time, does not seem to be very useful. I can see where it is useful to touch off after I manually set work x,y and Z, as it will reference my first tool and store the offset for my touch plate. Again, please understand I am only asking as this is not something I am used to seeing. I have used mach3 for about 4 years now, and I use path pilot at work.
 

masso-support

MASSO Support
Staff member
No issues with asking questions, will try to explain the process.

You should actually leave the last tool in the spindle as MASSO remembers the tool number even after power down, its just that it needs to recalibrate the length of the tool after after power up. As the axis need to first find the home position after power up to be able to use the machine, in the same way the tool height also needs to be calibrated on power up.

Yes, even if the axis stays in the other direction after tool touch then by that time the controller knows the X position, so thats not a problem.
 

routertrav

routertrav
Ok, that makes sense now :). SO, let me make sure I understand this correctly. I leave the last tool used in. After homing on startup, it will go touch the tool off to calibrate. I load my gcode and the first tool I am going to use. I set x0 and y0, hit cycle start and the controller will go touch off my new tool, which is now tool 1, since it asks me to load tool 1 and hit cycle start. Then is is business as usual from that point on. Now, since I have no tool in my spindle now, can I just load any tool for the initial home, just to get some sort of calibration started?

Thank you for all your help.
 

masso-support

MASSO Support
Staff member
yes you got it mostly right, please just dont load any tool to get homing going as this can cause problems.

Let's say you had tool: 4 on the machine then you switched off the machine, now on power up MASSO will remembers tool 4 and think its using tool 4, next you home the machine and it now knows that tool 4 is loaded and also knows the tool length. At this stage if you run a gcode file and if the file also needs tool 4 then the controller will start machining straight away as it will see that tool 4 is required for the job and it already has tool 4 so nothing to change.

So now with the same above example if you just load any other tool in the spindle but not update MASSO by giving a T M6 command (lets say tool 7) then MASSO will still thinks that its got tool 4 and this will cause problems.
 

routertrav

routertrav
I am still having issues with this type of setup. Leaving tools in spindles is not safe. I cannot tell you have many time I have cut my arms on long drills I have left in spindles. I am not sure why masso would need to remember last tool used, as everything is fresh the next day. Example...I have a new job to run today. I power on masso, and home machine. I then load my gcode and manually set my x0, y0, z0, on the stock I am using for this job. Since I do not have any tool tables loaded, I use tool 1 to set the stock position, which in my case is front left corner of stock (corner closest to you). I hit cycle start. This is where masso should go to my auto tool zero position and start its offset calibration. Each tool after that will of course go and touch off to set tool height, which I am sure is what it does now. Job complete..I clear the spindle of any tools and remove my job from the machine table. I am done for the day. Tomorrow I have a job to run. The sequence should be the same as today's job. I manually set the x0, y0, z0, for the first tool my new job requires. I feel this is the safest way that this routine should work. I would hate for someone to cut themselves on a tool that is sticking out of a spindle, while they are cleaning their machine of loading new stock. Keep in mind that this masso controller will be used on cnc routers as well, which puts the spindle much closer to the work area.

I am hoping you get the auto edge finding back in soon, as this will greatly improve this process.

Other than this routine, I am very happy with this controller. I surfaced my table last night and all went well. I did turn off auto tool zero though, just for that job. I will work on using the auto tool zero as is, but really would like you to consider maybe changing the routine until the auto edge stuff is turned back on, which I hope is very soon.
 

masso-support

MASSO Support
Staff member
can you please share some photos of your machine with tools installed, we can then have a discussion about this with others and see if we can change the logic.
 

routertrav

routertrav
Yes I can. My argument is somewhat negated, embarrassingly, as I installed a cheap dust shoe today. That big box around your tool is a pretty good safety measure as well. I still do not like leaving tools in as a rule, but I can adapt as that is how masso works right now. The only real thing I would personally like to see change is the part where it touches off that last tool used. I still feel it would be better if the initial homing sequence would do just that, home. ( process) Load new program, and stock, manually set x,y, and initial z per first tool. I understand the need to manually input the first tool in the MDI. You have to do this in mach 3 as well...well not in an MDI, and there is a special place for inputting a tool, but it is the same idea. After cycle start, it then goes and touches off the first tool you just manually set, then starts program. Give me a few min to go take some pics and I will post a few. Keep in mind, this is still a work in progress. I just got it up and running :)
 

routertrav

routertrav
Here are a few pics as promised. The only thing that I can see that will still be a safety issue, even with the dust shoe, are long drills that end up being the last tool used. I really do appreciate you listening to my concern and ideas. Even if it is something you do not feel needs to be changed, it is nice to know you all listen to us end users. That is a rare thing.
 

Attachments

  • IMG_20180926_202900.jpg
    IMG_20180926_202900.jpg
    3.5 MB · Views: 17
  • IMG_20180926_202922.jpg
    IMG_20180926_202922.jpg
    3.5 MB · Views: 13

breezy

Arie
Staff member
I agree with @routertrav that on startup the machine should home and only auto zero the tool when the loaded program is started.

Because the shed policy is when you are finished with a tool/machine clean it and put it away ready for the next person to use it. So for routers, drills and the like, cutters/drills/blades are removed and returned to their storage location.

Regards,

Arie.

For the Bicton Men's Shed.
 
Top