Care to review / criticize my work?

[adodds720]

Hi All,
Ive been working on my Electrical Panel Build for my DIY Router / Spindle Table build, utilizing the Masso G3 Touch Wiring Module. Ive searched forum after forum, and found answers to most of my questions, but im still iffy regarding the use of the Pull-Up Resistors. I was hoping someone smarter than myself could take a quick peek at my "Schematic" and see if I made any errors on the Masso Input side of things. I found Forum Threads regarding Stepper Alarms, Push Buttons, Homing Sensors, pretty much everything, and from what I gathered, I need Pullup Resistors for everything. For the most part, Ill use the Dip Switches on the Touch Module, but a few items (like the Stepper Alarms) seem to require larger Resistors. I found the thread regarding Bussed Resistors, bought a couple to try out and was able whip something together. This is purely a DIY build for me, so Im trying to quadruple check myself before I fry something. If anyone is willing to take a look, Id really appreciate it. Though my schematic shows an image of a G3 Touch, its all actually wired to the Touch Wiring Module as im mounting it in my enclosure. Ill list the components w/ Links I'm using or will be using if it helps.

Tool in Place & Drawbar Status Sensors = (PNP) Built in Jainken Spindle (JGL-80/2.2) https://www.jian-ken.com/automatic-...l-80-1-5kw-2-2kw-2-5kw-24000rpm-40000rpm.html
Touch Plate = Basic Aluminum Square Style similar to link, but Ill make my own https://www.amazon.com/Z-axis-Setti...&sprefix=cnc+touchplate,industrial,130&sr=1-2
TS Touch Off & Over Travel = https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09VB987DV?ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_fed_asin_title
Go Home, Go Park, Extra1, & Tool Release = https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08SKJ6V7Z?ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_fed_asin_title (will 3D print mounts for these similar to DashMade's EZ Buttons)
Dust Hood1 = Parker Air Cylinder NCDMB075-0200T-M9BS (M9B is the Sensor, Solid State, Gen Purpose, 2-wire) https://www.smcpneumatics.com/Part-Builder-Products_ep_2414-1.html?NCDMB075-0200T
Y Home, Y Limit, & B Home = (NPN) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00TX5XDE8?ref_=ppx_hzsearch_conn_dt_b_fed_asin_title_1
X & Z Home = (NPN)

https://www.automationdirect.com/adc/shopping/catalog/sensors_-z-_encoders/inductive_proximity_sensors/12mm_tubular/am1-an-3h

Coolant Flow Sensor =

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07MY7H45V?ref_=ppx_hzsearch_conn_dt_b_fed_asin_title_1

Stepper Drivers (ALM) = (CL86T) https://www.omc-stepperonline.com/c...24-110vdc-for-nema-34-stepper-motor-cl86t-v41
Air Pressure Switch = https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07RLJK6WT?ref_=ppx_hzsearch_conn_dt_b_fed_asin_title_3

Am I going overboard putting Pull-Up Resistors on everything, and did I even do it right? I used this project as a way to force myself to better understand electrical, but this whole Resistor thing has me second guessing myself.
Thanks for any help / criticism, I know my "schematic" isn't really proper or spec, but the layout makes sense to me.
Im happy to provide any additional information I can if it helps.

 

[xeontis]

I'm about to embark on a very similar path, coming from Centroid I was spoiled with fantastic schematics and documentation. This is a good starting point for me so thank you for that. I'll let you know if/what I change to make it all work.

 

[breezy]

TS Touch Off & Over Travel

You can't wire the TS overtravel this way it needs to be in series with existing Estop switches.
The reason that Estop wire is moved from pin2 to pin1 is to put the MPG Estop in series with external Estops.

 

[adodds720]

Xeontis,
As a newbie to these forums myself, I say with confidence your in good hands out here. Everyone's been awesome no matter what the skill level is. I have 0 background in this stuff, aside from some intro classes i took in highschool 2 decades ago. I love making things and got jealous of all the youtubers getting big fancy name brand machines and finally decided that "if I can't buy one, I'll make one!" That pic I attached in page 3 of 15 in the docs i created for my build, Im happy to share them with you if you can benefit from them.

Breezy,
I intend to have a MPG / Pendant installed on my build. I neglected to mention that or show it in the schematic. That said, thank you for catching that, After reviewing the E-Stop wiring section I see now that for the E-Stop on the G3 Touch, the E-Stop on the Pendant, and TS Over Travel (serving as another E-Stop) to work, it needs wired to Pin1. I love Peer review!

Any thoughts on my use of Pullup resistors? I can't help but feel i have gone overboard, but I based everything off of what was explained in other forums. The way I see i the logic (in my head atleast) is pullup resistors are needed more for 2-wire applications, where one wire (ill call it the signal wire) also needs to supply voltage through the sensor, and the second wire is the return / ve- / gnd. That makes sense to me. Where Im lost is the use of 3-Wire sensors, where one is signal, one is ve+, and one is ve-. Since the sensor is being powered via the ve+ wire, I wouldn't think a pullup resistor is needed for the signal wire. the sensors im specifically referring to are the ones I have pinned in inputs 4,5,13-17.

Also, is just dawned on me, would it have been possible to wire inputs 7-12 a different way? Like if us used the 5k6 Dipswitch, wired from input7 to my button, then back from my button to ve-? I guess im just curious if there's more than one way to do things.

Thanks for the teachable moments, as stated in my original post, this project of mine was intended to help force me to better understand electrical. Its been a blast, ive learned a lot, but im far from being a pro.

 

[breezy]

Where Im lost is the use of 3-Wire sensors, where one is signal, one is ve+, and one is ve-. Since the sensor is being powered via the ve+ wire, I wouldn't think a pullup resistor is needed for the signal wire. the sensors im specifically referring to are the ones I have pinned in inputs 4,5,13-17.

Whether you need pullup resistors depends on the type of sensor/input source.
A input source that "switches" to -ve/ground when active requires a pullup resistor, this is to guarantee that MASSO input changes state when going from inactive to active and back again. Some input sources leave the signal output "floating" when inactive.

This quick guide can help you to understand different types of sensors.

Sensor Identify & Connecting

docs.masso.com.au

 

[adodds720]

Well, when Masso has an already prepared "how-to" on the subject, I kinda feel dumb for having even asked in the first place...
Thanks for pointing me in the right direction, Ill bust out my little PSU this weekend and sort out what Sensor Type I have.

 

[xeontis]

Xeontis,
As a newbie to these forums myself, I say with confidence your in good hands out here. Everyone's been awesome no matter what the skill level is. I have 0 background in this stuff, aside from some intro classes i took in highschool 2 decades ago. I love making things and got jealous of all the youtubers getting big fancy name brand machines and finally decided that "if I can't buy one, I'll make one!" That pic I attached in page 3 of 15 in the docs i created for my build, Im happy to share them with you if you can benefit from them.

Breezy,
I intend to have a MPG / Pendant installed on my build. I neglected to mention that or show it in the schematic. That said, thank you for catching that, After reviewing the E-Stop wiring section I see now that for the E-Stop on the G3 Touch, the E-Stop on the Pendant, and TS Over Travel (serving as another E-Stop) to work, it needs wired to Pin1. I love Peer review!

Any thoughts on my use of Pullup resistors? I can't help but feel i have gone overboard, but I based everything off of what was explained in other forums. The way I see i the logic (in my head atleast) is pullup resistors are needed more for 2-wire applications, where one wire (ill call it the signal wire) also needs to supply voltage through the sensor, and the second wire is the return / ve- / gnd. That makes sense to me. Where Im lost is the use of 3-Wire sensors, where one is signal, one is ve+, and one is ve-. Since the sensor is being powered via the ve+ wire, I wouldn't think a pullup resistor is needed for the signal wire. the sensors im specifically referring to are the ones I have pinned in inputs 4,5,13-17.

Also, is just dawned on me, would it have been possible to wire inputs 7-12 a different way? Like if us used the 5k6 Dipswitch, wired from input7 to my button, then back from my button to ve-? I guess im just curious if there's more than one way to do things.

Thanks for the teachable moments, as stated in my original post, this project of mine was intended to help force me to better understand electrical. Its been a blast, ive learned a lot, but im far from being a pro.

Thanks, I'm up and running - just finished setting up my ATC... super easy with Masso go check it out if you want.

 

[mkulikow]

You can't wire the TS overtravel this way it needs to be in series with existing Estop switches.
The reason that Estop wire is moved from pin2 to pin1 is to put the MPG Estop in series with external Estops.

Agreed, wire it to a CYCLE_STOP input as Masso suggests, or it has to be in series with the other Estops.

 

[adodds720]

Hello All, just wanted to drop an update. I figure someone else down the road might benefit from this. I just finished looking into the Homing Sensors and determined the following:
Sensor Model AM1-AN-3H (NPN)= Type4, Requires Masso Input Invert, and a 5K6 Pullup Resistor (https://www.automationdirect.com/ad...tive_proximity_sensors/12mm_tubular/am1-an-3h)

Sensor Model SN04-N2 (NPN)= Type1, No Masso Input Invert, No Pullup Resistor (https://www.amazon.com/Inductive-Proximity-SN04-N2-Detection-Photoelectric/dp/B0CVTYXDRX?th=1)

What I have yet to determine are the Jainken Spindle's Drawbar Status and Tool In Place (PNP) Sensors. I just received the Spindle, it will be a while before I can mount it, so Im not sure how I can trip these sensors on the bench to perform the Sensor Identification that @breezy suggested.

@mkulikow,
I've made the adjustment to the TS Overtravel. On the G3 Wiring Module in my Electrical Cabinet, it is wired to ESTOP1, while the Wire for the G3 Touch will be wired to ESTOP1 (as well) as I intend to add a Pendant.

Full discolusure, My setup is mostly theoretical at this point. I have all components save for the G3 Touch & Pendant. Thanks to the tariff wars, that Spindle really set me back, so its going to take me a bit before I can purchase the G3 Touch. In the meantime I've been wiring the Cabinet, quadruple checking my wiring, and doing a little 3D Modeling (designing my own retractable Dust Boot for use with the ATC) Looking forward to the day I see this thing running...

 

[breezy]

I've made the adjustment to the TS Overtravel. On the G3 Wiring Module in my Electrical Cabinet, it is wired to ESTOP1, while the Wire for the G3 Touch will be wired to ESTOP1 (as well) as I intend to add a Pendant.

Those wires need to be in series so that there is only 1 wire going into ESTOP1 terminal.
So the circuit will be from the G3 Touch Estop button out to the TS Overtravel, then on to any other ESTOPs, then back to the G3 ESTOP1.

 

[adodds720]

Aah, I understand what you mean now. That said, I just reviewed the Masso docs for the G3 Touch Wiring Module, and the way I read it, I thought I had it right the first time.

Step 4​

• Terminal 1 - Connect the Green wire - This is MASSO Input 1.
• Terminal 2 - Connect the Blue wire - This is MASSO Input 2.
• Terminal 3 - Connect the Yellow/Red/White wires - This is the positive power that is applied to MASSO.
• Terminal 4 - is for external E-Stop:
• At the Machine end only use Estop Terminal 2 for connecting the external Estop.
• If an external E-Stop on the machine is to be used, connect one side of the external E-Stop button to the positive power MASSO is powered to.
• Remove the Red wires from Terminal 3 and connect to Terminal 4.
• By doing the above, all E-Stop buttons will be in series, and pressing any E-Stop button will put the machine in E-Stop.

• Connect the Black Estop wire to Estop 1 or Estop 2 on the Local extension board.
• If you have a pendant installed on MASSO connect to Estop 1.
• If you do not have a pendant installed on MASSO connect to Estop 2.

According to the green highlighted section above, by having the Red wire in Terminal4, and the Black wire in EStop1, It sounded like i can put the TS OverTravel to EStop2 in my cabinet and that would put everything in series. Am I misreading this?

 

[breezy]

According to the green highlighted section above, by having the Red wire in Terminal4, and the Black wire in EStop1, It sounded like i can put the TS OverTravel to EStop2 in my cabinet and that would put everything in series. Am I misreading this?

That is correct. The wiring module does make added external Estop buttons easier. My previous answer was based on Touch without W/M.

I looked at your schematic again noticed that you have drawn the axis Homing/Limit sensors going through the dip switched pull up/down resistors, that is not correct. The resistors mounted on the W/M are either switched pull up or down or open, never can they be in series.
Also you can't have two NC sensors go into one Homing/Limit input without multiplexing them as per Multiplexing homing sensors on the same axis for Hard Limits

Sensor Identify & Connecting

docs.masso.com.au

If the sensors are not yet mounted consider using this method. Mounting the Homing sensor

Homing

docs.masso.com.au

 

[adodds720]

From reading through the W/M docs, i was under the impression that the dip switches performed the same function as the below pic, so for example, I would have the Sensor Signal Wire going into Input13, and I would flip the Dip switch for it to enable the use of the Resistor

The way I have it "drawn" on the schematic is more or less a visual aid for me to reference which Inputs are utilizing the dip switches without having to remove the cover and physically look.

As far as the "multiplexing", I don't know much about that, but Im assuming your looking at this circled portion of schematic?

If so, I don't actually have those signal wires wired together there, I was just low on space and couldn't fit 6 individual Sensor Symbols on my page. The only other place I believe they are "multiplexed" might be the Y-Home & Limit. I have both those signal wires going into Input14. I got that idea from the multiplexing doc. I lack the knowledge to understand what sensor is what type in the doc, but it looked to me that 2 sensors could be wired to the same input, with or without a resistor, depending on the Sensor Type. I identified my Y-Home, Limit & A-Home Sensors as Type1, and not needing resistors.

 

[breezy]

I believe they are "multiplexed" might be the Y-Home & Limit. I have both those signal wires going into Input14. I got that idea from the multiplexing doc.

That is what I'm referring to. Think about this situation, both sensors are NC so there is a circuit from either 24V or GND depending on type of sensor, now one goes open but the other one is still connected to either 24V or GND so holding the input in the same state the whole time the other sensor is in changed state, hence nothing happened as far as the G3 is concerned.

Normally NC switches are the preferred method, used in series, so any wiring failure will throw an alarm.
NO switches are not preferred, as wired in parallel no alarm will be thrown if there is a wiring failure.

With sensors, NC will provide alarm on wiring failure if used on their own, but when you need two sensors per axis you have to use NO and wire via diodes but there will be no wiring failure detection.

This why I suggested you consider using one NC sensor to detect both ends of the axis travel.

Here the sensor is mounted to the moving part of the axis and there are two trigger plates, one mounted to each the end of the stationary portion of the axis.

This is a moving bed arrangement, sensor mounted to frame and triggers on each side of the bed.

 

[adodds720]

That is what I'm referring to. Think about this situation, both sensors are NC so there is a circuit from either 24V or GND depending on type of sensor, now one goes open but the other one is still connected to either 24V or GND so holding the input in the same state the whole time the other sensor is in changed state, hence nothing happened as far as the G3 is concerned.

Ooooh... yeah, i didnt think about that... makes sense now. Unfortunately, due to the design of my Gantry System, im kind of constrained to the two-sensor setup without having to rethink a lot. Luckily, it seams the SN04-N (NO) are cheap enough. Im sure ill get what I pay for quality wise, but I can grab a couple extra and rethink the situation if/when the time comes. Adding the diodes make sense to me also. Though my electrical knowledge is lacking, I atleast understand the purpose of those. How would one "size" the diodes required?

 

[breezy]

How would one "size" the diodes required?

You could use a "heavy duty" one like 1N400x or a signal diode like 1N914/1N4148, it depends on price and availability.
Search the internet for signal diodes and find one that has reverse voltage > 30V and forward current > 50mA.

 

[adodds720]

Thanks for making that easy for me! I found some readily available, so that should solve that. I also purchased a couple more sensors, so now all but the Y Home and Limit will be NC. Ill wire in the Diodes for for the Y Sensors when they arrive. Im getting anxious to see this thing come to life, I got my tax return today, so i took the plunge and ordered my G3 Touch! Fingers crossed for no magic smoke...

 

[adodds720]

I just received the new sensors and was running through identifying the type, but what I came up with does not match any of the 4 types listed. Does that indicate that this sensor is incompatible? Below are the results of my sensors
View attachment 10370
I was testing at 12vdc. PNM-CN-3H are NPN N.C. type.

I tested these assuming "Normal State" = nothing in front of the sensor & "Triggered State" = something in front of the Sensor. Since these are N.C. should I flip flop my assumption? If so I believe that would make these Sensors Type4

 

[adodds720]

I dont think my attachment uploaded, sorry about that

 

[cncnutz]

It think it will work fine.
Wire it to a MASSO input as a type 4 and don't invert the input.
Then it should show Low normally and High when triggered.
Cheers Peter