disable auto tool measure during homing

johnharvey

johnharvey
I want to just home the machine, then MDI the first tool I plan on using and measure it, then set Z zero, then let auto tool zero only function during a program run.

So a disable check box for "auto tool zero" when homing only.

Other wise the Auto tool zero just might measure nothing in the spindle, (bad) or measure some random tool number from the last job (useless)

Auto tool zero really should only function during a program run I would think.

j
 

cncnutz

CNCnutz
Staff member
Hi John

You think you misunderstand how the Auto tool zero feature works on Masso.

First it remembers the last tool installed in the spindle even after being powered off. If the first tool in the Gcode matches the tool registered in the spindle it will not perform a tool change. This is why the last tool should be left in the spindle and the your tool should have a permanent number assigned to it.

It doesn't matter if the tool in the spindle is not the one you want to machine your project with the Auto tool zero will still work so long as you do not change the tool until instructed by Masso. Simply set up the zero point using the tool in the spindle and it will still work changing the tool change at the start of the program and automatically set the correct zero point. Measuring some random tool from the last job is not a problem and the auto tool zero will work fine.

Now I admit that for the home hobbiest like myself who is a bit inconsistent when it comes to numbering of tools I have adopted the following method of ensuring the auto tool zero feature works for me every time. I change the tool before I home my machine. This eliminates issues with my tool numbering and means that there will be a tool in the spindle. If I'm moving from one job to the next I will simply leave the existing tool in position and setup with that. If I have a tool number conflict which I have to admit is my issue and not the machines, I simply change the tool and home the machine. One day I will setup the tool table in Masso and in my Cam Software properly. One day

Cheers

Peter
 

johnharvey

johnharvey
You think you misunderstand how the Auto tool zero feature works on Masso.

I probably don't! lol

BUT, I think MASSO is trying to do too much thinking for us (me) thus making assumptions that are not necessarily true which leads to the problems you and I describe.
First it remembers the last tool installed in the spindle even after being powered off. If the first tool in the Gcode matches the tool registered in the spindle it will not perform a tool change. This is why the last tool should be left in the spindle and the your tool should have a permanent number assigned to it.

This is the beginning of the "assumptions" of MASSO's logic in this I think. The machine should home obviously, but there is no way MASSO can know what I want to do for tools for this next job, changes and setup etc. Leave that to me.

Let me put in the first tool on the setup sheet after homing, then MDI T(x) M6 that tool, then set Z zero for it on the work piece. then RUN.
It doesn't matter if the tool in the spindle is not the one you want to machine your project with the Auto tool zero will still work so long as you do not change the tool until instructed by Masso. Simply set up the zero point using the tool in the spindle and it will still work changing the tool change at the start of the program and automatically set the correct zero point. Measuring some random tool from the last job is not a problem and the auto tool zero will work fine.

Again, MASSO logic not a machinists. It should serve me, not the other way around. If there was no tool in the spindle, the nose of the spindle will crash the setter as it goes down around it. NOT GOOD. When I set up a job, I'm going to have a certain number of tools assigned that may or may not include the last one used on the last job. I want to measure those only upon my command, not a homing sequence forced tool measure, Does that make sense?
Now I admit that for the home hobbiest like myself who is a bit inconsistent when it comes to numbering of tools I have adopted the following method of ensuring the auto tool zero feature works for me every time. I change the tool before I home my machine. This eliminates issues with my tool numbering and means that there will be a tool in the spindle. If I'm moving from one job to the next I will simply leave the existing tool in position and setup with that. If I have a tool number conflict which I have to admit is my issue and not the machines, I simply change the tool and home the machine. One day I will setup the tool table in Masso and in my Cam Software properly. One day

Setting up with a tool not used is counter intuitive and open to error.

So a simple "homing only" option would be nice since it's an industry standard practice. I'm not aware of a HAAS or MAKINO or etc. that homes and grabs the last tool used in the rack and measures it for fun?? do you Peter? (tongue in cheek) lol



Cheers,

j
 

breezy

Arie
Staff member
John,

I raised the question on tool measure during homing about 12 months ago (can't find the post now) and was told the same thing that Peter has just said. My main concern was leaving a tool in the spindle when the unit was shutdown and "packed away" until it was required again, which could be the next day or weeks later.

Now I just leave the tool in and home it when it is required to do work. I then issue T0M6 (the only tool defined on MASSO) in the MDI to install the Drewtronics probe and then set all the zeros for the job.

Regards,

Arie.
 

cncnutz

CNCnutz
Staff member
I understand that you might not want to leave the last tool in the spindle but on an auto tool changer Masso remembers the last tool installed for more efficient machining. That way the machine doesn't need to find it if it is the one that is needed. I've had a collet jam in a router due to lack of use over winter and corrosion grabbed it, so I understand. I had to machine a new one because I destroyed it and the cutter getting it out.

I could be missing something but when you machine a project, sooner or later you have to put the tool into the spindle, why not make it the first thing you do as a matter of routine.

With Masso you turn it on, install the tool, home the machine and zero the cutter.

You want to turn it on, home the machine, install the cutter, auto tool zero as a separate operation, which you might forget to do if busy, and then zero the cutter. I understand you might forget to put the cutter in the collet but I'm sure you would see it while you were homing the machine. If your spindle nose is conductive it will touch off the tool setter, though if the collet nut is painted like mine it will be a different story. DOH!

Don't get me wrong I understand where you are coming from but once you develop a routine it becomes 2nd nature. You don't need to home the machine until are ready and have installed your tool.

It took me a few months to figure out how it worked and why I was having problems, but every time I tested it, it worked perfectly and then I would machine something and the tool length was wrong again. Finally the AH HA moment and it all clicked. Now I don't even think about it and just do it automatically.

Just my opinion

cheers

Peter
 

johnharvey

johnharvey
understood Peter,

but second nature in this case is similar to learning a second language because it is so out of the norm. Meaning, if you live in AU and the machine requires you to learn and get used to some Portuguese because the Portuguese believed their particular way was better than decades of precedence IE: (CNC standard practices), that's a problem for all those potential English speaking future adopters of MASSO in their shops.

Those that want to adapt MASSO into their shop, will always be a bit annoyed by something like this.

With many pro CNC users out there, I would think some of these things would be no brainers, IE: the customer is always right.

My main concern is now I have to train others in the shop to get used to what amounts to as "quirks" (no offense meant), Everyone is saying, what the H_ll! and are always a bit surprised by what is really a non industry standard movement of the machine at start up. I can disable it in the settings, so to avoid the non-standard behavior,

but then I have to go back in and turn it on so it measures tools when ACTUALLY CALLED to do so by a programmer/program or an operator.

Again, just make it an option, give owner/operators a way of making MASSO behave in an EXPECTED way. That's all I'm saying.

Let "HOMING" BE HOMING, ONLY, not homing and tool measuring because that by definition, is NOT HOMING.



cheers,

j
 

mike_irving

Mike_Irving
I am having problems with the home on my G3. If I turn the tool setting on it goes to the position I set in tool measure after homing then it never will actually run the Z down just

says homing please wait forever. If I turn it off it works normally. `

I followed the video Peter. Watched it several times to be sure I had everything set OK. I have the latest version installed.

Mike Irving
 

breezy

Arie
Staff member
Quote from Mike_Irving on December 29, 2019, 5:30 am

I am having problems with the home on my G3. If I turn the tool setting on it goes to the position I set in tool measure after homing then it never will actually run the Z down just

says homing please wait forever. If I turn it off it works normally. `

I followed the video Peter. Watched it several times to be sure I had everything set OK. I have the latest version installed.

Mike Irving

@mike_irving

It would be better to ask this question in the Question & Answers forum.

Try this
  • home with ATZ off
  • Turn ATZ on
  • Issue tool change in MDI (T0M6)
  • Press cycle start after it has moved to tool change location.

Does ATZ work? If not do you have the correct settings for Z safe & feed rate?

Regards,

Arie.
 

johnharvey

johnharvey
I vote for making Homing be homing and tool measuring be tool measuring. Cats and Dogs doin' one another is just not evolutionary!! :)



happy New year!!
 

vps

vps
Quote from Mike_Irving on December 29, 2019, 5:30 am

I am having problems with the home on my G3. If I turn the tool setting on it goes to the position I set in tool measure after homing then it never will actually run the Z down just

says homing please wait forever. If I turn it off it works normally. `

I followed the video Peter. Watched it several times to be sure I had everything set OK. I have the latest version installed.

Mike Irving

Hello Mike,

I find the same problem. In my case when I set minimum travel off the X an Y axis tot 0.00 it works properly

Ren
 

irakandjii

Irakandjii
I like the idea of this being an option. Homing is homing and tool measuring is tool measuring.

I always remove the tooling from my mill when I am finished, and put it away in safe storage. Also, I value the back of my hand and sweeping under a razor edge is one less thing I want to worry about when I am cleaning up. I have a table top mill so space is tight.

Since I can go days between jobs, I would not want to worry about what tool to insert first.

At the same time, I understand why the last tool used is a saved parameter. I see that as valuable in the event of a power failure etc. so I am not suggesting that software function be removed.
 
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