E-Stop relay output. Is this normal?
- Thread starter derekmccoy
- Start date
Hi Derek,
The Estop relay output is a lower voltage than the other outputs but it still works with the Masso relay module.
Cheers Peter
The Estop relay output is a lower voltage than the other outputs but it still works with the Masso relay module.
Cheers Peter
derekmccoy
derekmccoy
Ideally I want to trigger my safety relay which is 24v. I guess it could trigger the Masso relay which then passes 24v to my safety relay?
Hi Derek,
That is how I would do it.
Cheers Peter
That is how I would do it.
Cheers Peter
derekmccoy
derekmccoy
@masso-support
Hi Peter, I found a diagram which has the same terminals as my safety relay: https://www.se.com/uk/en/faqs/FA28074/
I noticed that I can input 24VDC to Y1 and a "to PLC" output comes out of Y2. Am I right in thinking I could connect Y2 to Masso's E-Stop input and that circuit would open in case of an E-Stop? If so, this would be the safety relay triggering Masso.
Would this be a better solution compared to using Masso's ES TTL output to get a relay to trigger the safety relay?
Hi Peter, I found a diagram which has the same terminals as my safety relay: https://www.se.com/uk/en/faqs/FA28074/
I noticed that I can input 24VDC to Y1 and a "to PLC" output comes out of Y2. Am I right in thinking I could connect Y2 to Masso's E-Stop input and that circuit would open in case of an E-Stop? If so, this would be the safety relay triggering Masso.
Would this be a better solution compared to using Masso's ES TTL output to get a relay to trigger the safety relay?
breezy
Moderator
Derek,
Generally the controller triggers safety stop relays, not the other way around. MASSO issues "Estop" when other equipment trigger a fault condition. eg. Spindle fault will shutdown axis drivers to bring machine to dead stop.
Without knowing the internal circuitry of your safety relay, I'm assuming it is a type of Zero Volt relay. Switch S2 activates internal relay which "latches". S1 is Estop which releases the latch, also if L1 is interrupted the latch releases. Terminals 13/14 & 23/24 are the load contacts.
Regards,
Arie.
Generally the controller triggers safety stop relays, not the other way around. MASSO issues "Estop" when other equipment trigger a fault condition. eg. Spindle fault will shutdown axis drivers to bring machine to dead stop.
Without knowing the internal circuitry of your safety relay, I'm assuming it is a type of Zero Volt relay. Switch S2 activates internal relay which "latches". S1 is Estop which releases the latch, also if L1 is interrupted the latch releases. Terminals 13/14 & 23/24 are the load contacts.
Regards,
Arie.
derekmccoy
derekmccoy
Thanks @breezy,
I cannot find a manual for my GSKE relay but the above link shows a GSKC which has the same terminals, I screenshot it for you. It's the inner circuit, the outside one is the replacement model. I have sort of deduced now that terminals ending in 1 and 2 seems to be NC so I think it's safe to say E-Stop circuits go into T11/T12 and T21/T22.
Terminals ending in 3 and 4 seem to be NO, but I don't think it's that simple. Like you say 13/14 and 23/24 power the contactors. But then there's terminals T33/T34 which are saying to go to the NC contactor terminals but my contactor only has one NO rail. Not sure if it's right, but a wild guess from me is to wire in the alarm reset button here and the start/stop button on the contactor like this guy has done. (Yes, that is the best video on how to wire a contactor that I have found on Youtube).
What are the Y1 and Y2 "to PLC" used for then?
I cannot find a manual for my GSKE relay but the above link shows a GSKC which has the same terminals, I screenshot it for you. It's the inner circuit, the outside one is the replacement model. I have sort of deduced now that terminals ending in 1 and 2 seems to be NC so I think it's safe to say E-Stop circuits go into T11/T12 and T21/T22.
Terminals ending in 3 and 4 seem to be NO, but I don't think it's that simple. Like you say 13/14 and 23/24 power the contactors. But then there's terminals T33/T34 which are saying to go to the NC contactor terminals but my contactor only has one NO rail. Not sure if it's right, but a wild guess from me is to wire in the alarm reset button here and the start/stop button on the contactor like this guy has done. (Yes, that is the best video on how to wire a contactor that I have found on Youtube).
What are the Y1 and Y2 "to PLC" used for then?
Attachments
The best way I have found to negotiate the logic differences between MASSO and the rest of the world are:
Your E-Stops, door switches and interlocks all trigger your safety relay using 24v. This includes your estop on your pendant. On the 15pin plug coming from the pendant, pick off the two wires that go directly to the little estop and run those in your estop loop on the safety relay.
Your safety relay then triggers on estop condition which will drop the contacts on all devices you have connected. The MASSO will be one of them.
YOU SHOULD NEVER RUN SAFETY THROUGH A BRAIN.
If your machine has the ability to maim or kill, then safety should be hard wired and not got through a PLC, controller or interpreter of any kind if at all possible. Sometimes safety devices of different classes can, but Etops generally don't.
Your E-Stops, door switches and interlocks all trigger your safety relay using 24v. This includes your estop on your pendant. On the 15pin plug coming from the pendant, pick off the two wires that go directly to the little estop and run those in your estop loop on the safety relay.
Your safety relay then triggers on estop condition which will drop the contacts on all devices you have connected. The MASSO will be one of them.
YOU SHOULD NEVER RUN SAFETY THROUGH A BRAIN.
If your machine has the ability to maim or kill, then safety should be hard wired and not got through a PLC, controller or interpreter of any kind if at all possible. Sometimes safety devices of different classes can, but Etops generally don't.
Those are sourcing transistor outputs which are designed to integrate with PLC or other sinking loads. You could use this for onscreen display of E-stop conditions.S31 and S32 is one loop or channel of Estop NC contacts and S21 and S22 is another set. If your estops are single channel (ie: only have one contact like the Masso pendant) you can use a loop on one of the channels usually but not always - consult the documentation.
Often these relays are used in conjunction with additional relays/ contactors and can "monitor" their behaviour via an NC contact off each relay. If a relay contact welds for whatever reason, the safety relay will not restart after an ESTOP, this way there are no unintended starts of motors etc.... basically 'verifies' that any additional relays are all working properly. This is displayed here on T11/33 and T34 which is the start circuit. You can bypass this with a loop which means when you release your estop, it will reset the relay. OR use a dedicated start switch (why not?). the start switch, if in series with your auxiliary relay contacts must close a loop to start the safety relay. This way, everything is checking that everything is working.
To get your head around it all, make a mock up on your bench. then once you fully understand the thing, implement it. Just make sure it's all correct and can't be fooled, then implement it in your system. It's good practice not to gang the enable pins on your drives for example. if one drive fails, it's inhibit pin could go high triggering all your other axis to go high. If you run each axis enable pin through it's own contact on a relay that is controlled by your safety relay, then the chance of that happening is null.
Here's an illustration of a different model but sort of explains it a bit better. you have a start circuit (certain conditions must be met before the relay with enable) , a monitoring circuit (monitors e-stop loops, door interlock loops, etc), and an output circuit (drops a relay in series with a motor, or illuminates a red light/alarm etc). you can add many more relays to one of these outputs and expand the capabilities of your safety relay.
Cheers
Ant
