E-Stop

angelars

AngelArs
I will be using a Gecko G540 with my Masso.

Both the G540 and the Masso have inputs for a E-Stop.

Would using one over the other work better?

Does setting up a E-Stop on one or the other offer any advantages?
 

clover

clover
@angelars I had the exact question to Masso a little while ago and the answer was that Estop on the G540 should be used.

I did this by having the Estop output on the Masso (Relay 7) operate an external relay (in a similar way to the diagram here ). The contacts of that relay are connected to Main Terminal Block Pins 10 and 12 of the G540 so that on Estop there is no connection between Pins 10 and 12.

The result is hitting the Masso Estop will activate Estop on both the Masso and the G540. Only a light duty relay is necessary for this as the currents are very low.

It works well for me.
 

clover

clover
Hopefully @angelars this will help.

Please see updated version of this drawing further down this thread.
 

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clover

clover
Hey @Masso. Is there an internal Flyback diode on each of the seven relay outputs?

@angelars, if Masso replies 'yes' then the diode in the diagram above may be omitted.
 

clover

clover
Updated drawing of Gecko G540 Estop slaved from a Masso Estop.

Flyback (Protection) diode has been removed from original as the Masso has internal Flyback diodes.

EDIT.... EDIT.....

If you like reading the 3 or 4 pages of text in this thread to see how this story pans out, do so by all means. But if you want to cut to the chase quickly, here is the end result of this fairly long back and forth discussion.

Masso made at least one hardware change to the Masso controller starting with Revision 6 of the Masso PC board. See image below to find out where to check Revision number.

While this revision does not affect the operation of your Mass0 in any way it does change the required external wiring if you are using a relay connected to Relay 7 (the Estop relay) of the Masso to call an Estop on another piece of equipment, in my case a Gecko G540 stepper driver.
  1. With board revisions 1 through 5 inclusive, an Estop operation will operate a relay connected to Relay 7 connector.
  2. With board revisions from 6 onwards, an Estop operation will release a relay connected to Relay 7 connector (In other words Relay 7 would operate during normal Masso operation).

How this affects your relay wiring is diagrammed in the attached image. The reason for this change is that in normal operation the relay is energised - but on a fault condition for whatever reason with the relay circuitry the relay will drop-out causing an Estop. Very logical, thanks Masso.
 

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angelars

AngelArs
Excellent diagram Clover, THANKS for all your help.

Where does the actual e-stop button get connected in the diagram?

Anything special about the type of relay to use?
 

clover

clover
@angelars this might help.

Any general purpose relay of the correct voltage will do the job, not a Solid State relay though. The current and power requirements are very small.
 

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breezy

Arie
Staff member
Quote from clover on October 10, 2018, 8:19 am

Updated drawing of Gecko G540 Estop slaved from a Masso Estop.

Flyback (Protection) diode has been removed from original as the Masso has internal Flyback diodes.

I corrected the wiring to this drawing on the shed's 3DTEK Heavy Mill so that MASSO controlled the G540, originally had the G540 controlled by the second switch in the E-stop button.

But it didn't work so checked E-stop button's state when operated and released and found that E-stop is NC when released, so had to instead connect to the NO contacts on the relay and it worked OK.

Regards,

Arie.

For the Bicton Men's Shed.
 

clover

clover
That is strange behaviour @breezy.

During normal operation Relay Output 7 will have the Masso's supply voltage on it (e.g. +24v). The relay will not be energised with the NC contacts closed and a closed connection between Pin 10 and Pin 12 of the G540. This is required for normal operation of the G540.

On Estop the voltage on the Relay Output 7 will drop to near 0v, energising the relay. This will now open the circuit between Pin 10 and Pin 12 of the G540 causing Estop on the G540.

Hope this explanation helps Arie. Cheers, Patrick, a brother Shedder in Brisbane.
 

breezy

Arie
Staff member
Quote from clover on October 16, 2018, 10:03 am

That is strange behaviour @breezy.

During normal operation Relay Output 7 will have the Masso's supply voltage on it (e.g. +24v). The relay will not be energised with the NC contacts closed and a closed connection between Pin 10 and Pin 12 of the G540. This is required for normal operation of the G540.

On Estop the voltage on the Relay Output 7 will drop to near 0v, energising the relay. This will now open the circuit between Pin 10 and Pin 12 of the G540 causing Estop on the G540.

Hope this explanation helps Arie. Cheers, Patrick, a brother Shedder in Brisbane.

I will check wiring and voltages next monday, I'm sure I connected one side of the relay to positive supply and the other to the MASSO Estop output. At the moment the relay is energised when Estop button is released. I think the way it is working is better because if for some reason the relay failed to energise on Estop using NC contacts the G540 won't go into fault mode, but the way I have it now if anything causes the relay to drop out the G540 will go into fault mode.

Regards,

Arie.

For the Bicton Men's Shed.
 

clover

clover
I am intrigued Arie just how you manage to energise the relay on normal operation. There is no provision on the F1 setup page to change the output state of Relay 7 as there is for the other six relay outputs: at least not on the Masso version I am running (V3.33 I think). Relay 7's output is a 'current sink' and acts basically like an electronic switch shorting the connector of Relay 7 to the Masso's negative terminal on Estop.

What are you using for a relay? Is it a conventional relay like A in the image below (or a variation thereof)? or is it a Relay Module similar to B in the image. Many Relay Modules have the ability to operate from either 'current sink' and 'current sourcing' output. If you have one of these it is possible for your relay to operate in the way you describe. Hope I am not getting too technical.

In any event I can understand your desire to have your relay de-energise on Estop but I think it is important to find out why it is operating the way it is so that we may be certain it is all functioning within Masso's specifications.
 

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breezy

Arie
Staff member
Quote from clover on October 17, 2018, 9:08 am

I am intrigued Arie just how you manage to energise the relay on normal operation. Relay 7's output is a 'current sink' and acts basically like an electronic switch shorting the connector of Relay 7 to the Masso's negative terminal on Estop.

What are you using for a relay?

In any event I can understand your desire to have your relay de-energise on Estop but I think it is important to find out why it is operating the way it is so that we may be certain it is all functioning within Masso's specifications.

I have connected the relay as per MASSO instructions and your drawing.

ES3-1024x437-1024x437.png


So according to your description yes the relay will energise during normal operation.

And this is the relay

S4190D.jpg
mounted in this base
S4321.jpg


And yes I originally connected the G540 to NC connection and started the MASSO homing but the G540 show fault condition, so after I checked the switch status of Estop button I changed to NO connection. When I re-hashed the wiring I just cut the cable at the Estop button and re-routed it to the relay connections, so didn't change anything at the G540.

As I said earlier I will check wiring when I visit the shed again on Monday.

Regards,

Arie.

For the Bicton Men's Shed.
 

clover

clover
You have me tossed Arie. You have a conventional relay wired exactly as per the diagram and it still behaves differently.
So according to your description yes the relay will energise during normal operation.

This is not the case - the relay operates when an Estop is activated. The attached image shows in Blue the circuitry inside the Masso. It is as I noted in an earlier post an electronic switch that closes on Estop active and connects Relay 7 pin to the negative supply voltage. This then activates the relay on Estop active.



When you go to the Shed on Monday could you please take some voltage readings.
  1. Supply voltage (measure it across the Masso power connector).
  2. Voltage between Relay 7 pin and Power - (on the Masso connector), Estop not active.
  3. Voltage between Relay 7 pin and Power - (on the Masso connector), Estop activated.

Cheers, Patrick
 

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angelars

AngelArs
Quote from clover on October 14, 2018, 4:24 am

@angelars did you manage to get your G540 and your Estop set up OK?

Not yet, I am in the process of running wires now. While we're on the subject I was wondering about another form of e-stop...

What would be the differance between the typical e-stop, and one that would immediately shut down voltage to the entire system?

I ask because I was going to set up my CNC to work with Alexa, so that if I'm on the other side of the room and something happens I can simply give a quick command and the entire system would shut-down. Would there be any adverse effects to the Masso or the CNC from doing this?
 
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