Fanuc Servos

[airnut]

Well I have finally bit the Bullet and purchased My G3 and drivers that are supposed to work with the Fanuc DC Servos. I am looking forward to the arrival of my order on Friday. If all goes well with the first conversion I will do another one on the other machine I have in house. Both are running GN 6 Fanuc controllers at present.

Plan is to use the power supply unit in the Gn6, Maybe the manual crank on the panel, the servos because they are all good, the encoders, existing relays for all the bells and whistles and the Spindle drive unit and AC spindle motor. If I can get the Spindle drive to talk to the Masso. If not I have been assured that a compatible drive will be available that will drive the motor.

I have some questions. Is there a list of G codes the Masso currently runs successfully anywhere in list format? I have been watching for the last year or so and it still is not clear what the Masso supports. The Fanuc is loaded with a lot of routines that the G codes call. Just wondering where we are in the development phase and what is missing and when it is coming?

This may or may not be an issue as I have just updated from the stone age windows 98 programing Bobcad software and things are done a lot different now. I just don't have a good handle on the new Bobcad and how it works yet. So how much of the old way are still important v/s the new way. I have a large learning curve to go through, but I do know that not all the Fanuc machines have all the G- codes available for call either. Really concerned about things like rapid feed rates and deceleration. one of my mill tables probably weighs in over 1000 lbs.

Also I do run my machine (by Necessity) using the jog and location buttons for small projects and was wondering if there is a button arrangement like on my present controller supported or patch in that can be implemented to manually drive the servos other than the crank thing?

Has anyone out there done this before? Any help or suggestions? Does the controller come with good documentation or is it all on line or in this forum?

And here is another one, I think you can but, can you use the plasma program in a mill and switch back and forth between software with ease?

Looking forward to this. Thanks for any feed back.

Regards, Steve

 

[breezy]

@airnut

Steve,

Is there a list of G codes the Masso currently runs successfully anywhere in list format?

Goto pinned Topic in Q&A Cheat Sheet and download PDF.

Also I do run my machine (by Necessity) using the jog and location buttons for small projects and was wondering if there is a button arrangement like on my present controller supported or patch in that can be implemented to manually drive the servos other than the crank thing?

In documentation Configurable Inputs

• Jog/Rapid X+ & X- Inputs.
  
• Jog/Rapid Y+ & Y- Inputs.
  
• Jog/Rapid Z+ & Z- Inputs.
  
• Jog/Rapid Mode Input.
  

Does the controller come with good documentation or is it all on line or in this forum?

MASSO is working on printable documentation, otherwise it is online and help can be obtained from us on the forum.

Really concerned about things like rapid feed rates and deceleration. one of my mill tables probably weighs in over 1000 lbs.

That will be dependant on the tuning of MASSO to the drivers.

In regards to CAD/CAM I use Fusion360 or Sheetcam, depending on what I want to do.

Feel free to ask questions about any problems you may run up against. Best to limit it to one question per topic, easier for us to answer.

Regards,

Arie.

 

[airnut]

Breezy,

Thanks for getting back. I found the G codes and copied them. Ill try to keep it to one topic in the future.

On the configurable inputs. Glad to see that is available. Trying to design in my mind how to control everything and not have to re make a panel a dozen times to get where I want to go. About a thousand questions and details going in my mind right now.

Starting to disassemble the Fanuc controller and just looking to see what else I will need to use going forward.

Thanks again, Great to have assistance.

Steve

 

[airnut]

Next question,

I saw in one of the Video's someone recommending wire termination terminals and a crimper tool that had a 4 prong star on the side of it. Used for inserting under the Masso screw's. This looked like a great idea and I would love to follow that advise. Problem is I can't remember where in this Forum or other vids I saw it.

I would like to order one and a batch of terminals. Can anyone tell me where to look?

Thanks, Steve

 

[airnut]

Progress report,

Tomorrow my Masso and servo drives should arrive. I spent the last days removing a lot of wiring and Fanuc control boards. Getting into how the Fanuc system works and it is very complicated to be sure. There is an interaction between the Velocity control boards and the controller. Interaction between everything in this system. For 40+ year old technology it was very advanced. The Velocity control boards are basically the same thing as what we know as servo driver boards. They are also the home of the rectifiers for the DC conversion and that is all driven by the 3 phase power transformer circuits. There is a whole lot of talking back and forth between the controller and the drivers to make the servo move. The encoders are on the motors and connected directly to the controller. In order to use as much of the existing parts as possible I will use the existing transformer connections and the rectifiers, filters and breakers etc. To do this I have to disassemble the Velocity control units for each axis. The hope is that the encoders will work with the new DC drivers I have coming, if not them I may have to purchase new type of encoders for my Fanuc motors, we'll see soon.

The mind set has to change when you do something like this. I think it is probably easier to do than a complete scratch built because for one thing all the limits and everything is for the most part already there, you just have to identify how they did it and use the parts and wiring harnesses, etc.

Does anyone have experience with 0 or 05 Fanuc servo motor encoders (pulse) and interfacing them to modern drives? P.S. So you know if anyone asks. The operating voltage on these motors is 151 Volts on the 05's and 56 0r 88 on "0" series and 9+ amps so it takes a real big power supply to handle them.

Regards, Steve

 

[airnut]

Quote from Airnut on May 8, 2020, 4:36 pm

Progress report,

Tomorrow my Masso and servo drives should arrive. I spent the last days removing a lot of wiring and Fanuc control boards. Getting into how the Fanuc system works and it is very complicated to be sure. There is an interaction between the Velocity control boards and the controller. Interaction between everything in this system. For 40+ year old technology it was very advanced. The Velocity control boards are basically the same thing as what we know as servo driver boards. They are also the home of the rectifiers for the DC conversion and that is all driven by the 3 phase power transformer circuits. There is a whole lot of talking back and forth between the controller and the drivers to make the servo move. The encoders are on the motors and connected directly to the controller. In order to use as much of the existing parts as possible I will use the existing transformer connections and the rectifiers, filters and breakers etc. To do this I have to disassemble the Velocity control units for each axis. The hope is that the encoders will work with the new DC drivers I have coming, if not them I may have to purchase new type of encoders for my Fanuc motors, we'll see soon.

The mind set has to change when you do something like this. I think it is probably easier to do than a complete scratch built because for one thing all the limits and everything is for the most part already there, you just have to identify how they did it and use the parts and wiring harnesses, etc.

Does anyone have experience with 0 or 05 Fanuc servo motor encoders (pulse) and interfacing them to modern drives? P.S. So you know if anyone asks. The operating voltage on these motors is 151 Volts on the 05's and 56 0r 88 on "0" series and 9+ amps so it takes a real big power supply to handle them.

Regards, Steve

Quote from Airnut on May 5, 2020, 4:27 pm

Next question,

I saw in one of the Video's someone recommending wire termination terminals and a crimper tool that had a 4 prong star on the side of it. Used for inserting under the Masso screw's. This looked like a great idea and I would love to follow that advise. Problem is I can't remember where in this Forum or other vids I saw it.

I would like to order one and a batch of terminals. Can anyone tell me where to look?

Thanks, Steve

Answering my own question here. Found the Video Last night. The terminals are called Boot Lace terminals and I now have them coming from Ebay.

 

[airnut]

Progress report

Well, Fed ex was late by 4 days. when my order came in is was short a 12 volt power supply. Found that I had to have a DIN rail to mount the MASSO so ordered some of that up. Also got into the power supply units in the Velocity control units. There is a couple 3 phase rectifiers that are fed directly off the proper taps for voltage to drive the servos. Each one of these rectifiers has a rats nest of wires coming off of it going to the driver board. Looks like all these wires are taps off the rectifier for signal conditioning etc. Really have no idea what they do. There is only a resister and a thermal cutoff in the line out to the motor.

Will be using the DGS4 DC drive units and existing power supply parts plus some changes to drive the existing 0 and 05 motors.

I have ordered up some 3 phase rectifiers to replace the rats nest and simplify it as a driver power supply. Its interesting that they use the 3 phase as a power source and with no filter caps in the line. I guess the rectified sine wave will be smoother than with single phase rectification. My other machine has similar velocity controls on it but uses big filter caps in a normal configuration for a power supply. Looks like there must have been a change of thinking between the times these both came out in 1981.

Waiting for the delivery of parts is what takes the time and it makes you crazy too.

At this point I am looking at what is known as a Master control relay on each of these control units. It apparently is wired to the alarm circuits and dumps the 3 phase power coming onto the board thus necessitating a reset to go on. I plan to remove these. Can anyone see the need or advisability in our MASSO system to use these interrupts?

Is anyone home out there?

Steve

 

[airnut]

The above photo is of the Fanuc Velocity controllers for the XY&Z Here are some more pics. Before we sift out what is needed and what is not. Got a whole lot of Fanuc GN6 parts left over. I feel like perhaps this is a sacrilege to the pure in hart out there, never the less it all has to go and right or wrong God willing I will be running on Masso soon. 40 + year old electronics gets to be a problem over time.

Having trouble tonight getting photos off my phone over to the upload station. So they will have to wait. Masso is installed in the former space occuipied by the Giant Mother board. Had to re route the cables coming from the encoders over to where the Driver boards are as the Fanuc system drives the mother board with the encoders and then delivers a signal to the Velocity controllers.

Time to make decisions on Touch Screen or not and keyboards etc. I have looked at the feed on Touch screens and most of what I find there recommended I cant find on ebay in the USA. or they want 300 bucks for freight. Any suggestions for something over the counter in the us that will be compatible?

Steve

 

[airnut]

Here we go with some more pics.

Steve

 

[evermech]

@airnut

im not able to see your photos that you have been posting. Not sure if it's just at my end. I am interested in your build, what servo drives are you using?

cheers. Guy



xxxx well that's strange after I posted this, when the page refreshed I was able to see the photos ODD xxxx

 

[derekmccoy]

Quote from Airnut on May 8, 2020, 4:36 pm

Does anyone have experience with 0 or 05 Fanuc servo motor encoders (pulse) and interfacing them to modern drives?

I would try asking over at the cnczone forum. I did however find this guide, hopefully there's some info in there you could find useful:
https://www.centroidcnc.com/downloads/CENTROID_Fanuc_Retrofit_Manual.pdf

 

[airnut]

Derek,

Wow that is the mother load of information. This will take a while to digest. Really had no Idea there were so many different Fanuc motors out there.

Thanks.

Steve

 

[airnut]

Guy,

To answer you question. See the photo of the driver boards above.

Looks like you got the pics figured out. I don't have any thing locked down for certain at this point so don't run out and try this yet. I am trying to interface the Yellow CNC Drive driver boards available at cnc4pc to the original Fanuc frames and wiring block. Looks like this may work well. However this is leaving me ( at my option) with making my own power supply to supply the Motor power for each drive. The way it works is use the existing 3 phase transformers to feed the boards and create the rectification and filter circuits Just about through that. If I can't make that work then option b is to purchase 3 new power supplies. I Have been told that the encoders will work and have the pin outs figured out to adapt them. If not may have to upgrade those to something else as well.

We will see soon.

Regards,

Steve

 

[evermech]

Haha ya after asking I decided to try the photo doh!! Was the fanuc system run on pulse and direction also, or PWM control?

Guy

 

[airnut]

Guy,

I wrote this last night and posted it but it didn't get picked up for some reason. So I will try again this morning.

Short answer is Yes I think they are pulse and direction signals. There are also some other signals present at the encoder. One is a rotation counter, Sometimes known as a tach signal. I think that is for acceleration and deceleration functions which is likely going to be the possible down side to converting, but we will see.

The other is a overheat switch out of the motor itself which could be wired to estop or an alarm if desired. Hard to get my head around the fact that this little box can do most of the things all these high end circuit boards were designed to do 40 years ago.

Regards,

Steve

 

[airnut]

Update,

Still working on the power supplies for the servo motors, I think I have it figured out, as always, still waiting on a few parts. Mounted the monitor to the existing enclosure box. Was working on the sensors and the wiring for them and came up with a question.

The manual says the MASSO wants to see a normally low signal on all the location sensors. My machine is already wired with the sensors in normally closed position. This would mean that the connections are going to produce normally high signals if I understand properly. It is not all that hard to move to a normally open contacts on the switches, but as I understand it this can also be addressed by using the space bar routine in MASSO. So which way is the best to do or must it be done in the hard wiring by changing the contacts on the switches?

Thanks

Steve

 

[breezy]

Steve,

Use NC. That way if wire breaks or any other fault that causes O/C it will be picked up by MASSO.

Regards,

Arie.

 

[airnut]

Arie,

Thanks, So that means I will then change over the inputs to MASSO with the space bar routine?

Regards, Steve

 

[airnut]

Arie,

I also have switches which are located a short distance from the home positions. You can see in the attached photo. In the Fanuc system I believe these were used to drop the rapid speed move and approach home with a more controlled deceleration thus making it consistent or reverse the direction when you were trying to home. Is there any provision in the MASSO which will use this approach?

Thanks, Steve

 

[breezy]

Steve,

In the Fanuc system I believe these were used to drop the rapid speed move and approach home with a more controlled deceleration thus making it consistent or reverse the direction when you were trying to home. Is there any provision in the MASSO which will use this approach?

MASSO only uses one signal per axis for homing, so it is a case of adjusting homing speed so that it is rapid enough from the extreme end of the axis but slow enough to NOT overrun the homing switch. As soon as the homing switch is operated MASSO "stops" movement (not sure if it uses the acceleration that is programmed in the axis settings) and then slowly backs off until the switch "releases" and then moves the additional amount you have programmed in as the backoff distance.

I also have switches which are located a short distance from the home positions.

Unfortunately you can't use them.

Regards,

Arie.