Fibre Laser
- Thread starter lilow
- Start date
zombieengineer
ZombieEngineer
@lilow
Long time no see - Have you seen the Laser Engraving / Cutting section of the MASSO documentation?
Looks like this is part of the rumored multi-head system that is to be released "soon" - (@breezy care to confirm / deny?)
Long time no see - Have you seen the Laser Engraving / Cutting section of the MASSO documentation?
Looks like this is part of the rumored multi-head system that is to be released "soon" - (@breezy care to confirm / deny?)
breezy
Moderator
@zombieengineer
@lilow
Yes we are working with Opt Lasers to provide laser control as part of the Multi-Head software.
Regards,
Arie.
@lilow
Yes we are working with Opt Lasers to provide laser control as part of the Multi-Head software.
Regards,
Arie.
@zombieengineer
@breezy
I did see this in a recent manual download.
Over the last 12 months I've been putting together a large 4500 x 1500mm cutting area machine to replace the original Plasma built 20 years ago.
The last few months have been spent investigating 1.5kW and 3kW Fibre Lasers instead of another Plasma.
Have also put together some smaller machines for engraving or cutting.
The Opt Laser seems perfect for these.
Cheers.
@breezy
I did see this in a recent manual download.
Over the last 12 months I've been putting together a large 4500 x 1500mm cutting area machine to replace the original Plasma built 20 years ago.
The last few months have been spent investigating 1.5kW and 3kW Fibre Lasers instead of another Plasma.
Have also put together some smaller machines for engraving or cutting.
The Opt Laser seems perfect for these.
Cheers.
@zombieengineer / @breezy
After relooking at the ( https://docs.masso.com.au/quick-start-guides/laser-engraving-cutting ) post.
I searched anything OPT Laser for xPRO V5 combination, it came with basically the same coding as Masso describes.
Contacted OPT, their reply was they haven't done a code yet.
Enter back into the Fibre Laser situation.
Downloaded and used Google translate to find the connection.
RayTools 3.3kW Auto Focus head with driver.
( Yaskawa )
Finally found the connection, it needs an auto focus controller.
This is where Masso can plug into the Fibre head the same as the OPT Laser.
Photos below.
There is one screen shot with a green line around, these could be the 5 points of operation within Masso.
Maybe Breezy and ZombieEngineer could comment.
I will put the complete files up later.
Cheers.
After relooking at the ( https://docs.masso.com.au/quick-start-guides/laser-engraving-cutting ) post.
I searched anything OPT Laser for xPRO V5 combination, it came with basically the same coding as Masso describes.
Contacted OPT, their reply was they haven't done a code yet.
Enter back into the Fibre Laser situation.
Downloaded and used Google translate to find the connection.
RayTools 3.3kW Auto Focus head with driver.
( Yaskawa )
Finally found the connection, it needs an auto focus controller.
This is where Masso can plug into the Fibre head the same as the OPT Laser.
Photos below.
There is one screen shot with a green line around, these could be the 5 points of operation within Masso.
Maybe Breezy and ZombieEngineer could comment.
I will put the complete files up later.
Cheers.
Attachments
zombieengineer
ZombieEngineer
@lilow
Just spent five minutes watching someone explain how to manually focus and autofocus for a laser cutter (the material was plywood, not several mm of sheet steel).
The autofocus in the video was very similar to the plasma touch-off sequence to ensure the tip of the laser is a fixed distance above the material being cut.
I found a manual for the RayTools BM111 and my reading of the manual is that it takes a 0-10V and moves the focal point by 22mm. The term "auto focus" appears to be used in the context of "automate the focus adjustment" and not "automatically bring a surface into focus" (similar to a camera auto focus). The 0-10V input and 0-10V output appear to be the two legs of a servo driver mechanism (RC aircraft servos have an internal potentiometer to provide feedback of the current position).
It appears that there is two Z axis positions with a fiber laser:
So it looks like a touch-off is required to get the cutting nozzle position set and then a 0-10V signal is used to adjust the focal spot for optimal cutting.
During the last week or two I did see a posting about a capacitive torch height sensor for oxy torch cutting. You may need this to have the tip of the cutting nozzle track the surface of the sheet metal.
Just spent five minutes watching someone explain how to manually focus and autofocus for a laser cutter (the material was plywood, not several mm of sheet steel).
The autofocus in the video was very similar to the plasma touch-off sequence to ensure the tip of the laser is a fixed distance above the material being cut.
I found a manual for the RayTools BM111 and my reading of the manual is that it takes a 0-10V and moves the focal point by 22mm. The term "auto focus" appears to be used in the context of "automate the focus adjustment" and not "automatically bring a surface into focus" (similar to a camera auto focus). The 0-10V input and 0-10V output appear to be the two legs of a servo driver mechanism (RC aircraft servos have an internal potentiometer to provide feedback of the current position).
It appears that there is two Z axis positions with a fiber laser:
- The tip of the cutting nozzle which is blasting out compressed gas (probably oxygen)
- The focal point of the laser itself which is changed by adjusting the lenses inside the head block
So it looks like a touch-off is required to get the cutting nozzle position set and then a 0-10V signal is used to adjust the focal spot for optimal cutting.
During the last week or two I did see a posting about a capacitive torch height sensor for oxy torch cutting. You may need this to have the tip of the cutting nozzle track the surface of the sheet metal.
@zombieengineer
Thanks for looking.
The touch off and initial height is similar to a THC.
The focal height / point becomes the start point.
ie, 22mm.
The UP / Down limits into the ETC-F100 focal control from the CNC controller is now the issue.
This appears to work on analogue values.
I might bite the bullet and get the needed components to set up and test.
As a cost was given to me this week of $30K for the left over parts of a retro fit from 1.5kW to a 3kW.
3 years of service ??
To do the same thing as what I'm asking now.
It becomes feasible.
Cheers
Thanks for looking.
The touch off and initial height is similar to a THC.
The focal height / point becomes the start point.
ie, 22mm.
The UP / Down limits into the ETC-F100 focal control from the CNC controller is now the issue.
This appears to work on analogue values.
I might bite the bullet and get the needed components to set up and test.
As a cost was given to me this week of $30K for the left over parts of a retro fit from 1.5kW to a 3kW.
3 years of service ??
To do the same thing as what I'm asking now.
It becomes feasible.
Cheers
tayloredtech
TayloredTech
This is very interesting. A client of mine has the 1.5kw raytools fibre laser up the coast near where my machine is. Bloody impressive thing to watch. He imported it from China for around 45k I think. If there is an option for dual heads on a CNC I would love to fit a 40-80kw diode laser to the side of my spindle for laser jobs or even laser engraving then routing out the part.
Looking forward to seeing what you guys get up to here
Looking forward to seeing what you guys get up to here
breezy
Moderator
@tayloredtech
Mitch,
Have a read
docs.masso.com.au
Will be coming in the next update.
Regards,
Arie.
Mitch,
Have a read
Laser Engraving/Cutting
Regards,
Arie.
@breezy
@zombieengineer
Have been doing a heap of research on this.
When setting up the Lilow THC for Plasma, where they analogue signals ?
Between Up / Down, this between 0.003v.
As I spent a lot of time trying to get Masso working with my THC, may have found a prospect to use the VFD PWM commands.
Masso seems to work with the smaller 10 to 30 watt stuff, lets go for broke on this.
Now ( 1.5 to 4kW heads )
I have finally hopefully found a contact to help at HYD CNC.
Now do you call the inputs for the THC analogue ?
Cheers.
@zombieengineer
Have been doing a heap of research on this.
When setting up the Lilow THC for Plasma, where they analogue signals ?
Between Up / Down, this between 0.003v.
As I spent a lot of time trying to get Masso working with my THC, may have found a prospect to use the VFD PWM commands.
Masso seems to work with the smaller 10 to 30 watt stuff, lets go for broke on this.
Now ( 1.5 to 4kW heads )
I have finally hopefully found a contact to help at HYD CNC.
Now do you call the inputs for the THC analogue ?
Cheers.
zombieengineer
ZombieEngineer
@lilow - I am going to leave this with Breezy to figure out the details.
I have one small request - when you get this beast up and running please paint the chassis pure white and stencil "Great White" on the side. You will then you will have "a shark with a frickin laser on its head".
Sorry - couldn't resist. I did resist making the comment that you were hot rodding an old Multicam when you posted your conversion progress a week or two ago.
I have one small request - when you get this beast up and running please paint the chassis pure white and stencil "Great White" on the side. You will then you will have "a shark with a frickin laser on its head".
Sorry - couldn't resist. I did resist making the comment that you were hot rodding an old Multicam when you posted your conversion progress a week or two ago.
@zombieengineer
Thanks, I knew you would have some great input.
The end result, the MultiCam didn't need retro-fitting at this stage.
The purpose of this was to see if anyone had fitted / retro-fitted Fibre Laser to anything using the Masso G3.
The same way a Plasma gets hooked up.
Will just keep looking into it.
Cheers.
Thanks, I knew you would have some great input.
The end result, the MultiCam didn't need retro-fitting at this stage.
The purpose of this was to see if anyone had fitted / retro-fitted Fibre Laser to anything using the Masso G3.
The same way a Plasma gets hooked up.
Will just keep looking into it.
Cheers.
Now it's December with a lot more info to get trapped on.
Have searched the web for individually built Fiber Laser tables.
Virtually zilch.
So now, it's on with it.
Since October when I asked if anyone had built anything like it, there were no replies.
Have spent 2 months after hours doing the preliminary drawings, now onto pulling individual mechanisms out and designing the actuators for the mechanical advantage.
As I started 20 years ago with a standalone Plasma CNC, I've found a Fiber Laser torch height control that might work with Masso with the right talking to it.
All servo motors have been ordered.
Have an X axis right angle drive ordered along with the 2 Y axis planetary gear drives.
There will be times when I might need some help as I have never put a new machine together in this format.
The Z axis servo with brake and encoder arrived today, hooked it up, gets an alarm but that would be normal as nothing is connected or sorted.
A copy of the servo manual here - https://drive.google.com/file/d/1R1iMjjqeNttTzBQ2LUrLpD26qpfniI9Y/view?spm=a2g0s.imconversation.0.0.44703e5f5nywE5&usp=sharing
If I can get this running at 30 to 60 M/min with perfect accuracy with the Masso G3 control, there maybe backing to go with it.
Cheers.
Have searched the web for individually built Fiber Laser tables.
Virtually zilch.
So now, it's on with it.
Since October when I asked if anyone had built anything like it, there were no replies.
Have spent 2 months after hours doing the preliminary drawings, now onto pulling individual mechanisms out and designing the actuators for the mechanical advantage.
As I started 20 years ago with a standalone Plasma CNC, I've found a Fiber Laser torch height control that might work with Masso with the right talking to it.
All servo motors have been ordered.
Have an X axis right angle drive ordered along with the 2 Y axis planetary gear drives.
There will be times when I might need some help as I have never put a new machine together in this format.
The Z axis servo with brake and encoder arrived today, hooked it up, gets an alarm but that would be normal as nothing is connected or sorted.
A copy of the servo manual here - https://drive.google.com/file/d/1R1iMjjqeNttTzBQ2LUrLpD26qpfniI9Y/view?spm=a2g0s.imconversation.0.0.44703e5f5nywE5&usp=sharing
If I can get this running at 30 to 60 M/min with perfect accuracy with the Masso G3 control, there maybe backing to go with it.
Cheers.
Attachments
Last edited:
Last night ordered a Fibre Laser sensor head along with the pre-amplifier.
These work on an older style system.
Windows XP is predominate when looking here.
These 2 components work in a mode, which produces a di-electric field.
As I commented to a guy here who runs 3 Masso G3's.
The reason I purchased these items below is that the height sensing is capacitive.
The same as a NPN or PNP proximity sensor.
3 wire, must have a + / - and a signal.
The 4th wire is shielding for the other 3 wires.
They all work on a dielectric field which actually produces a voltage as an object gets closer to it.
This I have never checked on a proximity sensor, but would think that voltage would change until it's tripped a circuit.
At a specified setting.
If it does produce the variance of voltage as it gets closer to a common point, it gives another voltage as it's further away.
Hence, can be done with a THC.
Cheers.
These work on an older style system.
Windows XP is predominate when looking here.
These 2 components work in a mode, which produces a di-electric field.
As I commented to a guy here who runs 3 Masso G3's.
The reason I purchased these items below is that the height sensing is capacitive.
The same as a NPN or PNP proximity sensor.
3 wire, must have a + / - and a signal.
The 4th wire is shielding for the other 3 wires.
They all work on a dielectric field which actually produces a voltage as an object gets closer to it.
This I have never checked on a proximity sensor, but would think that voltage would change until it's tripped a circuit.
At a specified setting.
If it does produce the variance of voltage as it gets closer to a common point, it gives another voltage as it's further away.
Hence, can be done with a THC.
Cheers.
Attachments
segoman-designs
SegoMan DeSigns
Engineering by TED will always prevail !
SegoMan DeSigns
Here is something for you, I couldn't understand why all Chinese built Fibre Machines work on -10v to +10v on the height control.Below.
sensitivity
Focusing the Electric Field
When a voltage is applied to a conductor, the electric field emanates from every surface. In a capacitive sensor, the sensing voltage is applied to the sensing area of the probe (Figures 3 and 4). For accurate measurements, the electric field from the sensing area needs to be contained within the space between the probe and the target. If the electric field is allowed to spread to other items—or other areas on
Figure 5. Cutaway showing the guard field shaping the sensing area electric field |
Definitions
Sensitivity indicates how much the output voltage changes as a result of a change in the gap between the target and the probe. A common sensitivity is 1 V/0.1 mm. This means that for every 0.1 mm of change in the gap, the output voltage will change 1 V. When the output voltage is plotted against the gap size, the slope of the line is the sensitivity (Figure 6A).
A system's sensitivity is set during calibration. When sensitivity deviates from the ideal value this is called sensitivity error, gain error, or scaling error. Since sensitivity is the slope of a line, sensitivity error is usually presented as a percentage of slope, a comparison of the ideal slope with the actual slope.
I can set this height control to work way better.
Cheers.
zombieengineer
ZombieEngineer
@lilow
The +/-10V is probably due to using "operational amplifiers" (aka op-amps) which historically use +/- 15V (the reason for 15V is kind of lost in the mists of time). I have seen +/-10V on VFD drives where a negative voltage indicates spin in reverse. Perhaps the voltage range is to minimise the noise interference (better signal to noise ratio achieved by increasing the signal rather than reducing the noise).
If you have a +10V reference you can convert a +/-10V signal to 0-10V signal by using a pair of resistors as a voltage divider (output would be half way between the input and the +10V reference).
Found a somewhat informative "testing capacitive height sensor" video on youtube.
The +/-10V is probably due to using "operational amplifiers" (aka op-amps) which historically use +/- 15V (the reason for 15V is kind of lost in the mists of time). I have seen +/-10V on VFD drives where a negative voltage indicates spin in reverse. Perhaps the voltage range is to minimise the noise interference (better signal to noise ratio achieved by increasing the signal rather than reducing the noise).
If you have a +10V reference you can convert a +/-10V signal to 0-10V signal by using a pair of resistors as a voltage divider (output would be half way between the input and the +10V reference).
Found a somewhat informative "testing capacitive height sensor" video on youtube.
Thanks ZombieEngineer.
I ordered the pre-amplifier and sensor head to determine how the voltage reacts internally through the pre-amplifier.
The wiring of the servo drivers as in the documentation, are both S+ / S- and D+ / D- wires used as in block below ?
The servos drives use PP+ / PP- and PD+ / PD-.
Cheers.
I ordered the pre-amplifier and sensor head to determine how the voltage reacts internally through the pre-amplifier.
The wiring of the servo drivers as in the documentation, are both S+ / S- and D+ / D- wires used as in block below ?
The servos drives use PP+ / PP- and PD+ / PD-.
Cheers.
Masso to Panasonic - MCDHT3520 wiring example