Gemvision Revo 540CX to MASSO

perry

perry
This is my second MASSO conversion - the previous one was several years ago, a Millright Mega V CNC Router. I've also done a Denford CNC Lathe using Centroid Acorn (primarily because I like the conversational programming in Centroid, and will probably never use CAD/CAM for lathe projects, and because I was able to set it up as a semi-manual machine with dual MPGs). In any case, I decided to use MASSO for this project because it supports 5 axes, it's more compact than Centroid, and because the cost wound up being about the same.

The machine itself is a very small 4-axis Mill with dual spindles (one vertical and one horizontal). These are very high speed - up to 50k RPM. The original machine was built for carving jeweler's wax, which would then be cast in metal using the lost wax technique. My goal is to use it for Delrin and Aluminum.

This is what the original machine looked like:

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The 4th (rotary) Axis has a proprietary quick-change system for a variety of workholding fixtures, which you see hanging on the left side of the enclosure. These are jewelry specific, so not really of use to me. One is a Sherline 3-jaw chuck, but honestly I'd rather just have a proper chuck in there, so i ended up removing all of that. I might be interested in selling the workholding stuff and its quick-change mount, which should fit on any rotary axis with a simple adapter plate. But I'm still thinking about that.

I bought this from someone in New York, about 4 hours drive from where I am in Boston. Drove down there early one morning, loaded it into my car, and drove it back in time to have someone in the office help me unload. Long day.

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The original system has a dual coolant pump, meant to keep the wax from melting. Coolant falls onto the metal plate on the top of the X axis, and down some troughs into a collection tank, where it's recirculated. The whole machine was covered in an earwax-like sticky coolant/wax mess and took about two weeks to clean. Still finding parts coated in this stuff!

It took me a couple weeks to strip it down and look at how it was built. Turns out it's a German-made Isel mill under the hood. The X/Y/Z axes are on custom aluminum extrusions with round linear rails. All of the platforms are ball bearing, and chunky, and seem to move very smoothly. The motors were open-loop steppers with big chunky ballscrews. The spindles are Nakanishi, with a matching VFD. After thinking about it a bit, and seeing how rigid this is I decided to ditch the open-loop steppers for closed loop, but to keep the spindle(s) for now to see how they work. Changing them out for a single, more traditional spindle shouldn't be too hard, but it's very possible that this machine will work for me with the existing ones, which seem to be very high quality.

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I still don't know the maximum travel distances I'll get but it looks like it'll be in the 6x6x6 inch range, which is fine for the parts I plan to make on it.

The original control hardware was encased inside an aluminum box, which has connectors on both sides. These allowed you to completely disconnect the control module and remove it for testing on a bench. I tried to make that work with the MASSO and closed loop drivers, but I just couldn't make it all fit.

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Behind that box though, is an aluminum T-slot panel so I thnk I can fit it all in there.

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(continued, hit my photo limit!...)
 

perry

perry
And here it is with one of the side panels of the enclosure put back on. The power supplies are mounted on DIN rails, using the holes from the brackets that held the hanging workholding fixtures from the first photo.
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The original control box had a cover over it, which I am able to re-use. It basically clips to the two brackets on the side of the Z column in the photo above:
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I replaced the Z and Y motors already with Closed Loop motors that have the same specs as the originals, as far as I can tell:
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And I'm currently working on getting those limit/homing switches connected to something so I can close up these two axes and start working on the X. Hopefully more on that next week.
 

perry

perry
Some more work today:

Got an 8-pin connector in the side of the Z column, for the Z and Y Home and Hard Limit Switches. Still not sure if I'm going to use the hard limits but figured I may as well wire them in and I can decide inside the control box. Printed up the pinout and taped it to the box so I won't have to rip everything apart in the future if I need to figure any thing out.

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Wired the Z switches (which are on the opposite side from the connector, inexplicably) up and bundled them so they run across the axis without touching the motors, just in case.
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Z cover temporarily back in place:
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And a Cat6 cable wired into the connector, which will go to the MASSO: 1725472141251.png
 

perry

perry
It has been a crazy few weeks with unrelated fires to put out. I've been stuck in IT-land, resuscitating servers, upgrading linux machines, and generally doing all the day to day I hate doing. So not much time to work on the mill. But this afternoon I managed to take a tiny step forward. The original box has a power switch on the front and an e-stop that the main machine power is wired through. I don't like that, and want the estop to be wired into the MASSO. So I had to take apart the bottom of the machine, reroute the estop wiring up underneath the mill, and hardwire the front panel switch to the mains input. And it works. The 48v (steppers), 24v (MASSO), and 5v (MPG and maybe other stuff) power supplies are all wired in now.

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The next step will be getting MASSO powered up, estop, each axis motor one at a time, homing switches, and then the MPG pendant. I also decided I was far enough along that I could put the side panels back on and it's starting to feel a little more complete. Long way to go, but hopefully once I get one of the motors hooked up the rest will fall into place.

Arriving Monday is a USB keyboard/trackpad combo and a VESA mount extender that will allow me to hook up the monitor and keyboard on the existing swing-arm laptop holder from the original machine. I think there will also be room on that to keep the MPG pendant, or to hang it off of. Once I have that I can start messing with the controller itself.
 

perry

perry
Haven't had time to work on this, but today I'm copying 20+ TB of files for a client and not much else, so I got the MASSO wired up and powered on. My all-in-one keyboard and trackpad didn't work for the F1 software loading screen, and I had to grab another one to do that. I'll give it a go and see if it works otherwise, and if so I can live with that minor limitation. Ideally the keyboard/trackpad combo will live on that laptop stand. Inching closer...

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perry

perry
And of course I had to take the whole thing almost completely apart because the coupler for the Z axis was slipping. Dumb,

On the plus side, E-stop and homing switches are wired, and the Z axis is homing. Moving onto the Y Axis next then I'll close it all back up tomorrow and get everything dialed in. Once that's done I need to figure out the wiring for the X axis, and then the A.

Also, the USB keyboard/trackpad combo I bought works just fine, you just can't seem to use it to get to the F1 Software Selection screen on boot. It seems to take a little time to start responding after the MASSO has started, so that's probably the problem.
 

breezy

Moderator
you just can't seem to use it to get to the F1 Software Selection screen on boot. It seems to take a little time to start responding after the MASSO has started, so that's probably the problem.
MASSO gives you about 10 secs to present F1 keystroke at power up to switch into software loading screen/system.
 

perry

perry
No, it just doesn't work with the integrated trackpad keyboard I have. The keyboard is not responsive until after the password window comes up. And it ignores the first several keystrokes even then. I have to hit caps lock 5-6 times before it finally sticks, then do the password. My G3 at home with a generic USB keyboard behaves similarly. The first couple keystrokes in that password window are ignored. I always chalked it up to the MASSO not being ready to accept an input yet.
 

cncnutz

CNCnutz
Staff member
Try unplugging the flash drive and ony plug it in once you are in the software load screen.
There is 4 seconds from when you power on MASSO until when it loads the main program and if it does not see the keyboard in that time it will move on.
Depending on which USB port you plug the keyboard into will dictate in which order the keyboard is scanned.
Unplugging the flash drive means one less item to scan before it gets to the keyboard.
Cheers Peter
 

perry

perry
Ahh, that makes sense. I'll give that a try later. The only two USB ports in use right now are the keyboard and the thumb drive. I'm thinking of using the USB hub built into the old Dell monitor I'm using, because it would be cleaner, in terms of wiring, and would allow me to plug in a USB thumb drive at the screen instead of having to open the back of the machine. Would that exacerbate the situation?
 

cncnutz

CNCnutz
Staff member
I have no idea but I know how to find out.
Give it a try and see what happens.

Cheers Peter
 

breezy

Moderator
I'm thinking of using the USB hub built into the old Dell monitor I'm using, because it would be cleaner, in terms of wiring, and would allow me to plug in a USB thumb drive at the screen instead of having to open the back of the machine. Would that exacerbate the situation?
Not likely as that is how I have my rig setup.
Wireless keyboard/mouse combo dongle and USB drive plugged into a powered USB hub, which is the only thing plugged into the G3.
 

perry

perry
I have tried all but one USB port, with the thumb drive removed, and so far it takes a few seconds after the password window appears before I can type anything. one more usb port to go. Right now I have the monitor's USB hub inline but tomorrow I'll try it with the keyboard connected directly.
 

perry

perry
I just tested all of the ports, with the integrated keyboard/trackpad and with a generic USB keyboard. The Generic keyboard responds to keystrokes (Caps Lock, which will light up an LED on the keyboard), before the MASSO logo appears.

The integrated keyboard/trackpad only responds until about 10 seconds after power on. This is several seconds after the password window appears. The timing is about the same if it's plugged directly into the MASSO as it is running through the USB hub on the monitor.
 

perry

perry
Z and Y are now working properly, so I closed the machine back up and just finished mounting the X axis:

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Still need to connect up that motor, but it should be fairly straightforward. Once the motors are all hooked up and working, I'll run the calibration wizard so I can dial in the final numbers. I'm thinking of getting an SMW fixture plate to put on top of the T-slot but before I order that I need to figure out my X/Y/Z extents. I also have to get the A axis mounted.

Almost at the point where we're going to need to find something to put this on. I'm looking at one of these, but with a wooden cutting board block mounted to the top, and mill sitting on that. They put them on sale for under $300 every few months and I've had my eye on it. My only concern it may be a little too tall. At the current height, the keyboard is pretty comfortable. Higher up may be an issue.
 

perry

perry
My SMW fixture plate arrived today. It's not permanently connected, but it's enough that I could dial in the axis settings pretty precisely. Basically this is what I did for x and y:


zero it at the beginning, and let the dial indicator arm drag the calipers open. I have no idea what the leadscrew pitch is on this machine, so this made it pretty easy to figure out. I've done some tests and so far it's been pretty accurate. Once I get the final mounting bolts for the fixture plate tomorrow, I'll try to get it all leveled and straight, then lock it down. I'm within a fraction of a mm right now, but I'll see if I can get it closer once things are more together.
 

perry

perry
Playing around with some possible layout setups on the new fixture plate. Yes, I know the modvises are backwards, this is just to see what kind of space I'd have available and what the extents are of the work area. In particular, I need to find a spot to put the tool setter that's out of the way but permanent.

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Definitely liking the SMW stuff, but annoyed that it's a mix of imperial and metric, when I bought a metric setup. I live in the US but hate working in anything but metric for this kind of thing.

Hopefully next week I can get started on wiring up the pendant and the spindle/vfd. The spindle and vfd are already a matched set, so mainly it'll be about getting it talking to MASSO.
 

perry

perry
I had planned to use a third party pendant that required 5V power. But when I looked closer at the wiring of the one I bought I decided I didn't want to deal with it (so if someone in the US does, hit me up. I'll sell it at a small loss. It's unused). I brought the MASSO pendant from home into the office and it just worked, so I'll probably end up ordering one for here. So today I installed the Spindle(s).

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There are actually two spindles in this setup, one behind the other. The rear spindle faces the A axis. Both are wired into the matching VFD. It looks like you can switch between them using a pin on the DB25 connector. I still have no idea if the right facing spindle would be useful to me, but I figured I'd leave it mounted with the standard downward facing one, and maybe eventually I can make it work with the A Axis, if I come up with some use for it. In theory I should just be able to use a relay to choose the spindle in question.

Also looks like I won't be able to use the extreme left end of the fixture plate. I think with the fixed side installed a little bit in from that, I should be able to get a workpiece about 7-8" long on this, which is better than I expected. First order of business will be to cut some plexiglass to fit a bunch of connectors into on the side of the machine (pendant, X Motor, X Home Sensor, X Encoder, A Motor, A Home). There's already a cutout and mount there for the original drip coolant system, but I'm not using that, so it's a good place to make a patch panel.

In any case, I'm hoping after I get a little more coffee in me, to try firing up the VFD for the first time this afternoon, and getting it under control of the box I built a year ago, to test the spindle on my router at home:

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This allows me to control the VFD without the MASSO just to make sure it's wired up correctly. Though I doubt that'll be an issue since this was pre-wired by Gemvision. Should just work.
 

perry

perry
So I had to switch gears because the VFD/Spindle setup that came with this had a minimum speed of 5000 RPM and it wasn't going to work with MASSO without adding in additional hardware. Long story short, 0V to the VFD means 5000RPM, not 0 RPM, and there's no way to program the VFD otherwise. The Nakanishi spindles and VFD, while very high quality and worth a fair bit of money (they're probably for sale soon if anyone wants them), likely aren't up to the task on this machine anyway. I had always budgeted for a new spindle, so that's what I got - a 110V 1.5kW GPenny aircooled spindle.

This is 65mm in diameter, and uses a standard spindle mount, which it came with. but of course, that doesn't fit the machine as-is.

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You can see the spindle mount on the bottom. The Z-Axis plate that you see is the one that held the original spindle in place. I happened to have some 4x6x1 inch aluminum from a previous project and it was an exact fit. So last night I drilled out the mounting holes on my drill press at home, and brought it in today to test fit it.

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And it's a good fit. I drilled four holes (two above and two below) the holes on the old mounting plate, which I re-used as a spacer, to bring the spindle farther out. With the Spindle mounted, the end mill should be just about at the outer edge of the X axis, allowing me to use the full width of my fixture plate.

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This is the back of the 1" thick aluminum, with the mounting holes for the spindle mount counterbored. Because the spindle mount will cover the bolts that connect this 1" slab to the Z axis, I had to reverse the direction of the spindle mount bolts. This way, you can take off the spindle mount, if you have to remove this plate. Lock nuts on the front of the spindle mount will hold it in place.

I had to order the correct length M6 screws so those will be here tomorrow morning, and then I should be able to put it on the machine and start wiring up.
 

breezy

Moderator
The Nakanishi spindles and VFD, while very high quality and worth a fair bit of money (they're probably for sale soon if anyone wants them), likely aren't up to the task on this machine anyway. I had always budgeted for a new spindle, so that's what I got - a 110V 1.5kW GPenny aircooled spindle.
I had to order the correct length M6 screws so those will be here tomorrow morning, and then I should be able to put it on the machine and start wiring up.
This will easy the set up of the spindle configuration, one instead of two. 😌
 
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