Homing and calibration axises questions

louis

Louis
Hallo Peter,

We did revise electronically an old cnc router (CNC Mill Sei PLT PR) with a Masso G3. I didn't till yet update to V3.48, so 3.47 is running now. All functions we need works fine. Spindle with vfd works OK. In the annex you will find machine settings. But I have two questions to ask. The first one is about soft limits and the second one calibrating axises. Therefore I did look several times to your video's on Youtube about this subject. Unfortunately without success. Maybe I don't understand it well. What's the problem?

The first thing I did was homing parameterization (homing feed rate=1000 mm/min) and after that tool setting (x=192; y=71; z=0). This works without any problem. I did reverse x- and y-stepper for right movement and give in the axis menu, as you did in your video's, axis a range from travel minimum -3000 mm to travel maximum 3000 mm, see machine settings. I did define home position for x- and y-axis, no backlash compensation. That works very well, but after I did define soft limiting for x- and y-axis, homing didn't function anymore. Soft limiting works correct, it de-accellerate in time, so there is no clash to the frame. What I understand is that the router workspace must lie within the router physical dimension, that's what you call envelope. The homing point lies outside the workspace ( software version V3.47 and higher) but within the router physical dimensions. Do I understand this correct. I did disable hard limits. Can you tell me what I overlook?

Second problem is calibration axises. I did understand that this must be done after homing and tool setting and without activating limiting. So I used calibration wizard, because I don't know axises distance per revolution. I take the y-axes as example. So I start the wizard and jog by hand y-axis to a start point without limiting and marked that as zero and as a marker on tape, step 2 in the wizard. Then I jog the y-axis as wide as possible without limiting to the routers other end for let's say 9000 mm (move along a ruler) and take a look at the screen and see a distance of let's say 9000,25 mm. I type that value in the wizard step 4 field and complete calibration, save and save again. Masso did calculate ian value in the y-axis motor distance per revolution field. I did repeat this several times, several times change the distance per revolution field, but I never did reach the right distance. So, also here what do I miss?

Hopefully you can understand mine problem and will you answer my questions. I do apologize me for the language, but it isn't my native language. Thanks for your effort.

Louis van der Veer
 

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breezy

Moderator
@louis

Louis,

It is advisable to upgrade to v3.48 there are many improvements in there.

Could you upload the printable settings file instead of the HTG file, that saves us having to load it on to a G3 to see what your settings are. When we get that we can check your homing problem.

With regards to calibration try this.
  1. Secure a ruler/measuring tape to the bed inline with the axis to be calibrated.
  2. With a sharp pointer in the spindle align the pointer over a major mark on the tape.
  3. Start wizard and zero the wizard.
  4. Jog to another major mark on the tape.
  5. Enter the difference between the major marks into the wizard as the distance travelled.
  6. Calibrate wizard.

Do NOT enter the value shown on the DRO, this the value that you are trying to calibrate.

Now to fine tune the calibration.
  1. Align the pointer to the calibration start mark.
  2. Zero DRO
  3. Using MDI, issue command to move the distance you used earlier.
  4. Check the result on the tape, is it correct, if so you are finished.
  5. If it is short then adjust the distance travelled per revolution value's last figure down by one. ie x.35972 to x.35971
  6. If it is too long then adjust up by one.
  7. Repeat.

Regards,

Arie.
 

louis

Louis
Hello Arie,

Monday I go to the workshop and can see of your method will work. In the meantime I will download V3.48 but I can't create a account for Myworkshop. You advise is to install the latest update, so I will do. Please can you help me. I have Masso G3-6913. After Tuesday you will hear from me further. On manday I will install upgrade V3.48.

Thanks
 

breezy

Moderator
@louis

You should have received an activation email to login to myWorkshop, check your spam/junk folder.

Otherwise email support@masso.com.au with your serial number and details so that it can be sorted for you.

Regards,

Arie.
 

louis

Louis
Hello Arie,

I did send an email to support@masso.com.au, because we can't find any email to make an MyWorkshop account, so I can't download V3.48. I will first install V3.48 and after that I will calibrate all axises. Your fine tune calibration description is unclear to me, especially point 5 and 6. Which field must a use to correctthe distance travelled per revolution value's, is that the distance per revolution field in the wizard?
 

breezy

Moderator
Louis,

Have passed the software request on to Sales, but you didn't include your serial number so they will contact you for that before they can sort it out.

Once you have used the wizard there is no to use it again, unless you make major changes to your hardware.

For fine tuning you are adjusting the wizard's result in the DTPR field.

Regards,

Arie.
 

louis

Louis
Hallo Arie,

Today I did start with V3.48 update, and no problems. Thanks for the MyWorkshop account. After that I started to calibrate axises. X- and Y -axis without any problem. Also soft Limiting and homing for both axis works now. Homing problem seems to be solved. But z-axis gives problems. In the situation before z-axis had value's -3000 and 3000 for travel min and max. So as I said, no homing problems and a working tool setting.

When I calibrate z-axis and gave -60 and 0 for travel min and max, I become a z-axis soft limiting error and of course toolsetting isn't working correctly. When I set it back to the old value's (-3000 and 3000) no problem at all. I could milling well.

I don't know what's going on and why is doesn't work. Please can you tell me? Machine settings and printable file in advanced.

Thanks,

Louis
 

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  • MASSO_Mill_3-Axis_Settings.htg
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  • MASSO-Settings-G3-6913-Mill.zip
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cncnutz

CNCnutz
Staff member
Hi Louis

There is something not quite right with your soft limits.

You want to use 0 to -60 for your soft limits but you have a safe Z of -50
This means the axis will move down to -50 and then you have only 10mm of downward movement before it hits the Z axis soft limit.
This does not seem to be right.

What is the total actual travel of your Z axis?

Cheers Peter
 

louis

Louis
Hey Peter,

Next week Tuesday I go to the shop again. I will measure it for you and let you know. I have another issue. After I calibrate x- and y-axis and live soft limit settings for z-axis as it is (-3000; 3000) I did milling an plywood object (see appendix) with five same rectangles (101 x 1010) and same spacing (20mm) and a depth of 7mm. After milling I did a measurement of the rectangles 101.19 and spacing was 20.12. I will more accuracy, how can I reach that.

Second question, the formula behind wizard calibration is that: (distance travel given by hand (after zeroing the axis) divided by measured distance travel) multiply by distance per revolution from the axis menu?

Fine weekend

Cheers Louis
 

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breezy

Moderator
Louis,

The wizard uses the PPR and Total Pulses to determine number of revolutions turned to travel the distance measured. So the formula is DTPR = DM x PPR / TP.

And when MASSO is machining it calculates the number of pulses required to travel the requested distance. TP = RD x PPR / DTPR.

To improve your accuracy, did you follow the fine tuning instructions that I listed earlier?

If I follow correctly, you milled 5 pockets 101mm wide spaced at 20mm and the spacing at the ends should be 30mm.

Assuming the error was cumulative the final space would have been 28.57mm? This is indicates that your DTPR is too small, adjust the last figure of your DTPR value up by one and check the result, repeat until you get the results you are after.

Regards,

Arie.
 

louis

Louis
Hallo Peter,

Tomorrow I go to the shop for more axis calibration. Last week , as an reaction on your reply, I had looking to all axis, more especially to the z-axis. Your right, there was something wrong with z-axis parameters. So I changed that and now homing, soft limits and toolsetting works correctly. Tomorrow I go to the shop for more accuracy of x- and y-axis. Z-axis is oke. I believe that y-axis has an deviation of .05mm. Maybe I can make that smaller. X-ais has more deviation, I will see tomorrow. I send you the machine settings of last week, can you look to it to see if you see strange things, please? I let you know what tomorrows results be.
 

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cncnutz

CNCnutz
Staff member
Hi Louis,

There a couple of things I notice about your setup that are strange.

First I notice that you have a safe Z on the Tool change of -50. I'm not saying it is wrong but beware that if you put a long tool in the spindle it will probably crash into the toolsetter. I base this in the fact that you have only 27mm of travel remaining on your Z axis before it tits the soft limit. You know your machine best but it just doesn't sound right to me.

The other thing I notice that is strange to me is that you have managed to use up all of your inputs and outputs. While not impossible to do, I do notice that you are using manual tool changer and yet have assigned 4 tool changer outputs which are only used with a tool changer. I see that you are using 2 forms of coolant alarms for your spindle which doesn't seem right but again you know your setup best.

I would be interested to see a photo of it if you would like to share one. I have 2 impressions of your machine based on the settings file but they are completely different from one another so one must be wrong.

Cheers Peter
 

louis

Louis
Hoi Peter,

You have right I set safe tool change to -50, but on the moment I use only short tools. If I gonna use lang ones I will adjust this parameter to the right tool length.

At the moment I don't use a tool changer, but when the machine is good up and running I will install a tool changer, so I read with a lot of interest form articles about this subject. I did in machine setting a pre reservation for it.

About spindle coolant alarm, your right I will change that next week when I go back to the shop.

But still I have x- and y-axis calibration problems. Because I have no information about the leadscrews I sue the calibration wizard according to Arie's guidelines. I know that x-axis leadscrew diameter is smaller then y-axis. They are driven from a Nema 34 steppers (HY200-3437 with unused encoder RM210-1000),200 pulses for one revolution, divided by eight trough stepper driver. So, results in 1600 pulses per revolution. Steppers are from the early 1990's.

After setting starting point for y-axis in the wizard and zeroing this point, I jog in F3 screen and travel 800 mm exactly against a ruler and typed that distance in the wizard step 4. After that I complete calibration and did save two times. I did the same for the x-axis on a shorter distance. That results in a distance per revolution paramater for the x-axis of 10.004470 and y-axis get 9.996991.

I load my test milling rectangle (80 x 80 mm) and measured the results. X-axis give 80.56mm and y-axis 80.63mm, both are to wide. So I start tuning session described by Arie. I changed both values by one, and one and one, .................................... . Nothing changed. Bigger steps then one, no succes, nothing changed.

This was the second day I did these procedures, without succes. Or I don't understand the procedures well or there is something wrong I think with the steppers. Peter, do you have any idea? Stepper couplings are ok .

Second point is steppers delay when jogging is used. When you stop jogging it take a while for steppers will stop. That's why I also think that 1600 pulses are to much for this steppers. Are my thoughts ok ?

Hopefully you know what will be the next step to do. On the moment I have no idea.

Best regards,

Louis
 

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breezy

Moderator
Louis,

Your acceleration is too low, normally it is set to 10% of the feedrate, yours is 0.75%. Start with your acceleration set to 500 and test by running your machine at its max feedrate to draw "air" squares & circles, the movement should be smooth. You can up the acceleration to the point movement gets jerky, then back off a bit.

You are getting 0.56 error on 80mm so on 800mm your error would be 5.6mm, that is a long way out. The wizard is not that far out with its calculation, so you must be doing something wrong. Adjusting the last figure would not bring that amount of error into tolerance. After running the wizard on the Y axis, position on the zero point of your ruler, zero the Work DRO and in MDI issue G0 Y800 and you should move to the 800 mark on your ruler, if you are more than 1mm out there is something else causing the error.

You said that the encoders are unused, do the drivers have an input for encoders? If so connect them and try calibrating again.

Regards,

Arie.
 
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