Linear Tool Changer for Mill or Router

masso-support

MASSO Support
Staff member
Discussion about setting up and using Linear tool changers as per this link: https://www.masso.com.au/docs/masso...ation/mill-tool-changers/linear-tool-changer/

cnc-router-linear-Tool-Changer.jpg
 

lpnb

lpnb
Can't seem to get it to do an auto tool change with a MDI T1 M06

I get "tool error" everytime, it does not even move from where it is. I have set up 4 tool positions. checked all the values manually. Homing cycle working perfectly including zeroing out on the touch plate.

I have got "tool holder up" and down signals connected and "High" when active. all the solenoids tested by inverting their respective output signals. Clamp and up clamp work and set so they are "low" for clamped.

I did have the "dust hood up" up signal connected but I wasn't sure if this would work because there is no "dust hood down" sensor. will it work if only the dust hood up signal is connected?

On my machine the tool rack and dust hood are connected in parallel so there is no separate solenoid for these
 

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masso-support

MASSO Support
Staff member
it looks like MASSO is not getting some signal back from the tools tray or something. can you please share the MASSO settings file and please also make a quick wiring diagram of what is connected on on which input/output on the MASSO for the tool changer.
 

lpnb

lpnb
Here you go @masso-support

I have tried inverting the two holder up and down inputs and also reversed them but of course the manual change button then does not work.
 

Attachments

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  • outputs.jpg
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lpnb

lpnb
Please hang on and don't do any more investigation because I've discovered some strange behaviour of the clamp sensor output. I will get back to you next week if it's a problem I'll let you know if it's fixed
 

lpnb

lpnb
O.K. I have made a lot of progress. I had some bad connections in the spindle that were testing o.k. earlier on but they were flakey.

@masso-support I have made a lot of progress but not have another issue:

The Machine goes through the tool change cycle but stops when trying to pull new tool out from tool rack.

I have run the following with no tools but also does not work with tools in place.


I checked that the clamp/unclamp signal is getting through in the setup screen.
 

Attachments

  • MASSO_Settings.htg
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tayloredtech

TayloredTech
Quote from lpnb on November 26, 2018, 2:12 am

O.K. I have made a lot of progress. I had some bad connections in the spindle that were testing o.k. earlier on but they were flakey.

@masso-support I have made a lot of progress but not have another issue:

The Machine goes through the tool change cycle but stops when trying to pull new tool out from tool rack.

I have run the following with no tools but also does not work with tools in place.


I checked that the clamp/unclamp signal is getting through in the setup screen.

What would be good to know is the macro process of the linear tool change in Masso for e.g.

1. Goto ATC wait location.

2. Activate raise tools output

3. Wait for dust hood up signal input

4. Wait for tools up signal input

5. Goto to current tool clamp position

6. Activate spindle dust shoe up output

7. Place tool

8. Activate tool release output

9. Goto to wait location.

10. Goto parallel to new tool

Etc. Etc...

This way I guess if it gets to a certain spot we will know what part of the process is failing and can work it out ourselves more simply..

Does that make sense?
 

lpnb

lpnb
Quote from TayloredTech on November 26, 2018, 9:51 am

Quote from lpnb on November 26, 2018, 2:12 am

O.K. I have made a lot of progress. I had some bad connections in the spindle that were testing o.k. earlier on but they were flakey.

@masso-support I have made a lot of progress but not have another issue:

The Machine goes through the tool change cycle but stops when trying to pull new tool out from tool rack.

I have run the following with no tools but also does not work with tools in place.


I checked that the clamp/unclamp signal is getting through in the setup screen.

What would be good to know is the macro process of the linear tool change in Masso for e.g.

1. Goto ATC wait location.

2. Activate raise tools output

3. Wait for dust hood up signal input

4. Wait for tools up signal input

5. Goto to current tool clamp position

6. Activate spindle dust shoe up output

7. Place tool

8. Activate tool release output

9. Goto to wait location.

10. Goto parallel to new tool

Etc. Etc...

This way I guess if it gets to a certain spot we will know what part of the process is failing and can work it out ourselves more simply..

Does that make sense?

I would add to this ( I'm sure it's been said here before somewhere) that and one thing that would make yours and our lives easier with all the troubleshooting would be some sort of more explanatory error message. Even if it was simply an internal error code that only you understood at least you wouldn't have to try and figure out what's happening with long explanations and videos. logging that you can turn iff and on would be great too but understand that you have limited memory. if only that was some sort of debugmode I'm sure I could have solved nearly all of my problems easily.

I also get that the code is intend to be as light and as fast as possible but a temporary loss of working memory would be more than acceptable.

Of course I have no idea what limitations you're working with it would just be nice! ?
 

masso-support

MASSO Support
Staff member
@lpnb will look into adding some error codes, great idea!

as per your video it looks like MASSO is waiting for the "Draw bar" , "tool changer input 1" to go low once the tool has been picked so that it can confirm that the tool has been picked.
 

lpnb

lpnb
from MASSO - Support on November 27, 2018, 10:37 pm

@lpnb will look into adding some error codes, great idea!

as per your video it looks like MASSO is waiting for the "Draw bar" , "tool changer input 1" to go low once the tool has been picked so that it can confirm that the tool has been picked.

Thanks, I have checked that the drawbar clamp signal is indeed going low on the F1 screen but it still doesn't move out with the tool from that position...

I was going to try removing the clamp sensor I/P as per a suggestion from another member.

@masso-support

@tayloredtech
 

lpnb

lpnb
Quote from MASSO - Support on November 27, 2018, 11:07 pm

ok, will load your settings file to our controller and get back to you.

I tried turning off clamp sensor and it still fails at the same point I also tried changing the number of tools with no luck there also.

There is also a big problem if the spindle is unclamped it is actually possible to start the spindle motor. This is really bad
 

masso-support

MASSO Support
Staff member
Quote from lpnb on November 29, 2018, 1:25 am

Quote from MASSO - Support on November 27, 2018, 11:07 pm

ok, will load your settings file to our controller and get back to you.

I tried turning off clamp sensor and it still fails at the same point I also tried changing the number of tools with no luck there also.

There is also a big problem if the spindle is unclamped it is actually possible to start the spindle motor. This is really bad

can you please let us know by which command you are able to start the spindle?
 

lpnb

lpnb
Quote from lpnb on November 27, 2018, 10:46 pm

from MASSO - Support on November 27, 2018, 10:37 pm

@lpnb will look into adding some error codes, great idea!

as per your video it looks like MASSO is waiting for the "Draw bar" , "tool changer input 1" to go low once the tool has been picked so that it can confirm that the tool has been picked.

Thanks, I have checked that the drawbar clamp signal is indeed going low on the F1 screen but it still doesn't move out with the tool from that position...

I was going to try removing the clamp sensor I/P as per a suggestion from another member.

@masso-support

@tayloredtech

looks good except I does not have a separate dust hood output and only have a "dust up" signal.

also in the sequence it does not show the z movements between tool change.

also i tried disabling the clamp sensor input and it didn't help same problem
 

lpnb

lpnb
Quote from MASSO Support on November 29, 2018, 10:54 pm

Quote from lpnb on November 29, 2018, 1:25 am

Quote from MASSO - Support on November 27, 2018, 11:07 pm

ok, will load your settings file to our controller and get back to you.

I tried turning off clamp sensor and it still fails at the same point I also tried changing the number of tools with no luck there also.

There is also a big problem if the spindle is unclamped it is actually possible to start the spindle motor. This is really bad

can you please let us know by which command you are able to start the spindle?

@masso-support

M03

this problem happened when I tried to run a test job straight after the failed tool change so the spindle was still unclamped and I heard the spindle make a funny noise I do not wish to test this functionality as I could damage very expensive spindle. I will probably design some circuitry to lock out the spindle if the drawbar is unclamped.
 

masso-support

MASSO Support
Staff member
  1. Right now you will need all the signals even if you don't use them, this is where it gets tricky. Let me have discussion about your setup with others.
  2. Can you please make a list for us as to what inputs and outputs you have on your machine.
  3. We didn't mention much about the Z movements as the document is mainly for the signal logic flow explanation.
  4. For the spindle control, you should always wire the VFD output (you can set your VFD to output a signal when the spindle is not running) as an interlock to the control signals.
 

lpnb

lpnb
Quote from MASSO Support on November 29, 2018, 11:18 pm

  1. Right now you will need all the signals even if you don't use them, this is where it gets tricky. Let me have discussion about your setup with others.
  2. Can you please make a list for us as to what inputs and outputs you have on your machine.
  3. We didn't mention much about the Z movements as the document is mainly for the signal logic flow explanation.

All Inputs or just tool changer inputs?

Inputs:

TOOL CHANGER RELATED:
Dust hood up, Tool Changer up, Tool Changer Down, Spindle Running (not currently used), tool holder locked (not used, but requested), Tool clamped,

OTHER I/P:
Air pressure Low, X/Y/Z Alarm, X/Y/Z Home, Spindle Over Temperature input (not used), Tool Setter.

Outputs:

Tool Changer Up*, Tool Changer Down*, Tool Clamp, Bed Vacuum+Guide Pins** (allocated to M7 Flood on/off)

*Pneumatically connected to dust hood - when tool changer is moved up, dust hood is also moved up.

**When Bed Vacuum is on Guide Pins are retracted and vice versa.
 

lpnb

lpnb
Quote from MASSO Support on November 29, 2018, 11:18 pm

  1. Right now you will need all the signals even if you don't use them, this is where it gets tricky. Let me have discussion about your setup with others.
  2. Can you please make a list for us as to what inputs and outputs you have on your machine.
  3. We didn't mention much about the Z movements as the document is mainly for the signal logic flow explanation.
  4. For the spindle control, you should always wire the VFD output (you can set your VFD to output a signal when the spindle is not running) as an interlock to the control signals.

4. yes I always planned to do this but am waiting on some parts. I just assumed the Masso would check this in the logic. Thats fine I have a plan.
 
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