Anyone using the minithc2 with masso ? just wondering how they wired it up. I bought the hypertherm kit with the plugin board for the plasma cnc port and the THC-LPT Adapter, using a LPT to terminal block adapter to wire into the masso and a separate 24v power supply for masso and mini thc. Just not quite sure which wiring scheme to use for the masso and THC-LPT adapter. Has anyone got the C-axis protocol working so you can send cut settings to the thc from gcode? Would be nice to see a few more THC wiring diagrams added to the Masso Documentation.
Mini THC2 with Hypertherm kit
- Thread starter paulmac21
- Start date
breezy
Moderator
Thanks Arie, here's the manual . As I'm using the THC-LPT adapter with an LPT to terminal blocks board plugged into it, rather than plugging the THC-LPT adapter into a computer printer port as you would with a PC based system, not sure what I should be doing with +v to it. I guess I don't really need the thc-lpt adapter, I could just wire the lan cable straight to the masso from the mini thc, but it seemed a neater way to do it.
You're supposed to be able to send cut settings(volts, torch height etc) to the mini thc from gcode using the c axis protocol? pin, but really don't understand how that works. I can see how to add the commands to the gcode, but can masso send them to the mini thc?
Searched thru the forum and found a few using the minithc and a little bit of info, but nothing regarding the actual wiring. Thought it better to post here rather than trying the manufacturer as if there's others interested in the THC it keeps the info here.
I've attached a few pics of my setup and how far I've got.
1st shows outputs from masso;
MASSO THC-LPT
GND 25 - GND
10 9 - THC lock
9 8 - Torch on
2nd pic is the lpt-terminal block connected to the thc-lpt adapter
3rd pic is masso inputs
MASSO THC-LPT
18 13 - THC up
17 12 - 1st Sensor floating head
16 11 - THC Down
15 10 - Arc OK
14 not connected at the moment but would use for c axis protocol if it works
?? 15 - 2nd input for ohmic sensor
I have the ohmic sensor as well but wasn't going to use it at first so as not to confuse my self even more. There's one other output from the minithc that allows you to force off the probe outputs, which would be handy if using the ohmic sensor on a water table. Just have to modify links on the thc-lpt board.
So it sounds like quite a nice little thc and other's have had success with other systems, so hopefully it will play nice with the masso too.
You're supposed to be able to send cut settings(volts, torch height etc) to the mini thc from gcode using the c axis protocol? pin, but really don't understand how that works. I can see how to add the commands to the gcode, but can masso send them to the mini thc?
Searched thru the forum and found a few using the minithc and a little bit of info, but nothing regarding the actual wiring. Thought it better to post here rather than trying the manufacturer as if there's others interested in the THC it keeps the info here.
I've attached a few pics of my setup and how far I've got.
1st shows outputs from masso;
MASSO THC-LPT
GND 25 - GND
10 9 - THC lock
9 8 - Torch on
2nd pic is the lpt-terminal block connected to the thc-lpt adapter
3rd pic is masso inputs
MASSO THC-LPT
18 13 - THC up
17 12 - 1st Sensor floating head
16 11 - THC Down
15 10 - Arc OK
14 not connected at the moment but would use for c axis protocol if it works
?? 15 - 2nd input for ohmic sensor
I have the ohmic sensor as well but wasn't going to use it at first so as not to confuse my self even more. There's one other output from the minithc that allows you to force off the probe outputs, which would be handy if using the ohmic sensor on a water table. Just have to modify links on the thc-lpt board.
So it sounds like quite a nice little thc and other's have had success with other systems, so hopefully it will play nice with the masso too.
Attachments
breezy
Moderator
@paulmac21
Paul,
Your wiring seems to be correct, but you won't be able to use the C-Axis protocol or THC lock.
MASSO only uses 3 inputs and 1 output with external THC units.
docs.masso.com.au
docs.masso.com.au
We have developed our own THC that integrates with MASSO G3 and allows the THC settings to be controlled by on screen sliders or Gcode, only thing it is still in testing with OEM plasma builders.
Regards,
Arie.
Paul,
Your wiring seems to be correct, but you won't be able to use the C-Axis protocol or THC lock.
MASSO only uses 3 inputs and 1 output with external THC units.
- Up
- Down
- Arc OK
- Torch ON
Plasma and Torch Height Control
How THC works
We have developed our own THC that integrates with MASSO G3 and allows the THC settings to be controlled by on screen sliders or Gcode, only thing it is still in testing with OEM plasma builders.
Regards,
Arie.
@paulmac21
I'm using the C-Axis protocol. It works very well. You need the Masso software to support an extra axis. You can purchase an upgrade if you don't have it. I will post wiring and my g-code to control voltage setting when I'm back from vacation in two weeks. The THC lock is not necessary because MASSO is already controlling Z-axis and THC on/off.
Bj rn
I'm using the C-Axis protocol. It works very well. You need the Masso software to support an extra axis. You can purchase an upgrade if you don't have it. I will post wiring and my g-code to control voltage setting when I'm back from vacation in two weeks. The THC lock is not necessary because MASSO is already controlling Z-axis and THC on/off.
Bj rn
Cheers Jolbas, the maker of the minithc said the c-axis protocol should work with the masso , but couldn't see how to do it. I got the 5 axis 'just in case', only using 4 at the moment, so all good there. Also got the omhic sensor, though not sure how that will go with a water table and can't see that masso can handle a 2nd torch probe input anyway. I got it as I was going to use an AXBB-E controller but changed to the masso. Probably don't need to use the THC-LPT adapter, but again was going to use it with the AXBB-E and had a spare lpt- terminal block board, so thought it would be easier to wire up.
Have wired things up as above, except for torch float and power. Minithc manual shows 3 or 4 different ways of doing it and wasn't quite sure of which way to go.
Have wired things up as above, except for torch float and power. Minithc manual shows 3 or 4 different ways of doing it and wasn't quite sure of which way to go.
Yep, I thought I'd be better without the LPT-thc board. So Assuming you're using a separate power supply for the minithc, here's my wiring diagram so far.
So it's actually the same as the Proma 150? I thought it would be more complicated for the minithc... guess I was overthinking it. If my wiring diagram is correct masso is welcomed to use it in the documentation if they wish, if it needs editing please say and I will do so and repost.
Thanks Arie and Bj rn for your help
Just for interest sake, here's the C Axis (A or B for Masso) Protocol Commands:
Replace "C" with the axis you are using ie, A or B
G92 C0
G0 C8 'start frame 8
G4 P100
G92 C0
G0 C145 'set voltage 145V
G4 P100
G92 C0
G0 C15 'set pierce delay 1.5sec
G4 P100
G92 C0
G0 C5 'end frame 5
So it's actually the same as the Proma 150? I thought it would be more complicated for the minithc... guess I was overthinking it. If my wiring diagram is correct masso is welcomed to use it in the documentation if they wish, if it needs editing please say and I will do so and repost.
Thanks Arie and Bj rn for your help
Just for interest sake, here's the C Axis (A or B for Masso) Protocol Commands:
Replace "C" with the axis you are using ie, A or B
G92 C0
G0 C8 'start frame 8
G4 P100
G92 C0
G0 C145 'set voltage 145V
G4 P100
G92 C0
G0 C15 'set pierce delay 1.5sec
G4 P100
G92 C0
G0 C5 'end frame 5
Attachments
Seems to be right. I have tested to lower the C-protocols delays (P100) and the limit was around P1. Now I'm using P10 to be on the safe side. I also let Masso handle the pierce delay and using absolute numbers in g-code to keep the numbers near zero even if the machine is on for a long time. So my G-code looks like this:
(setting voltage on THC)
G0 A14 ( 9 + 5 to compensate for start and end frame )
G4 P10
G0 A5 (start frame -9)
G4 P10
G0 A140 (voltage 135V + 5)
G4 P10
G0 A135 (end frame -5 and the Masso will display the voltage on A-axis)
(setting voltage on THC)
G0 A14 ( 9 + 5 to compensate for start and end frame )
G4 P10
G0 A5 (start frame -9)
G4 P10
G0 A140 (voltage 135V + 5)
G4 P10
G0 A135 (end frame -5 and the Masso will display the voltage on A-axis)
@paulmac21 I have looked at my wiring now and it's almost the same as yours. This is what differs:
- I have 4.7k pull-up resistors instead of 5.6k.
- I have a 0.1k resistor in series on the MASSO outputs. I put them there after talking to Masso support about another issue. Haven't measured the actual current so I'm not sure it's needed.
- I have the same power source for both MASSO and MiniTHC
Cheers @jolbas, thanks for that. Got things mostly working as per my wiring diagram, except I seem to have a problem with the THC Down output on the minithc. The masso input flashes on/off. THC Up and Arc Ok and fine, and show a resistance of around 300 ohms when active but the THC Down shows 10.65K ohms (measuring across the gnd and corresponding out pins on the minithc, masso disconnected) Think I might have a problem with the minithc, masso side seems fine. Anyway, I have the plasma working without the thc so have emailed the maker to see what he can suggest.
segoman-designs
SegoMan DeSigns
The first time that little "fib" was told was approximately 3 years ago, curious to see how this version of it plays out. Note they said " only thing it is still in testing with OEM plasma builders" that means Masso still has not built their own plasma table to test designs and updates on..
Not slamming anyone - just stating the facts..
zombieengineer
ZombieEngineer
@breezy - Couple of questions about the prototype MASSO THC: Does the prototype THC use the analog input or digital inputs? Does the software development team have access to a small mill?
*puts on a fireproof suit*
@segoman-designs - I have spent the last couple of days trying to think of a proxy for a full plasma table yet allow the software developers to test out ideas. I need you to keep an open mind as this is potentially an "out there" idea...
My first thoughts was to find an inductive proximity sensor with an analog output, the idea is use the analog output in place of the torch voltage divider and have MASSO drive the axis such the proximity sensor would float at a constant height over a steel plate. An alternative to an inductive proximity sensor would be an ultrasonic proximity sensor (again - analog output) however they are somewhat pricey (approximately $200 each, fortunately you only need one for a test rig). An advantage of an ultrasonic sensor is the test surface could be a warped bit of plywood (cut a couple of slots and you have a test bed for an "anti-dive" algorithm).
Fundamentally a THC is effectively a "surface follower" that uses the torch voltage to determine the distance between the torch tip and the metal sheet being cut.
There are other potential uses for a "surface follower" setup include:
The milling of a PCB is the art of removing a fine layer of copper without significantly undercutting the substrate (typically fiberglass board). It would require a "surface feeler" connected to a linear displacement sensor in place of the torch voltage divider. I will try and throw together a quick drawing to give some ideas.
*puts on a fireproof suit*
@segoman-designs - I have spent the last couple of days trying to think of a proxy for a full plasma table yet allow the software developers to test out ideas. I need you to keep an open mind as this is potentially an "out there" idea...
My first thoughts was to find an inductive proximity sensor with an analog output, the idea is use the analog output in place of the torch voltage divider and have MASSO drive the axis such the proximity sensor would float at a constant height over a steel plate. An alternative to an inductive proximity sensor would be an ultrasonic proximity sensor (again - analog output) however they are somewhat pricey (approximately $200 each, fortunately you only need one for a test rig). An advantage of an ultrasonic sensor is the test surface could be a warped bit of plywood (cut a couple of slots and you have a test bed for an "anti-dive" algorithm).
Fundamentally a THC is effectively a "surface follower" that uses the torch voltage to determine the distance between the torch tip and the metal sheet being cut.
There are other potential uses for a "surface follower" setup include:
- Engraving an uneven surface
- Laser engraving leather (or other material) where the focus point matters
- Milling printed circuit boards (PCB) - a variation on the "engraving an uneven surface"
The milling of a PCB is the art of removing a fine layer of copper without significantly undercutting the substrate (typically fiberglass board). It would require a "surface feeler" connected to a linear displacement sensor in place of the torch voltage divider. I will try and throw together a quick drawing to give some ideas.
Attachments
segoman-designs
SegoMan DeSigns
ZombieEngineer,
FWIW my SxS and it's decorative mods is called the Zombie Patrol..
It is my understanding from reading several forums that the inductive systems don't play well with water tables that has a higher PH value from the anti-rust additives. Your ultrasonic proximity sensor is an interesting concept but I wonder if the plasma arc would interfere with it's use?
The plasma environment is not new technology by any means, you need real time control over THC / Travel speed and a few other parameters (like arc "not" ok faults) to make good cuts. With the current pricing on metals bad cuts can be really expensive!
FWIW my SxS and it's decorative mods is called the Zombie Patrol..
It is my understanding from reading several forums that the inductive systems don't play well with water tables that has a higher PH value from the anti-rust additives. Your ultrasonic proximity sensor is an interesting concept but I wonder if the plasma arc would interfere with it's use?
The plasma environment is not new technology by any means, you need real time control over THC / Travel speed and a few other parameters (like arc "not" ok faults) to make good cuts. With the current pricing on metals bad cuts can be really expensive!
zombieengineer
ZombieEngineer
@segoman-designs
Are you aware of any small / mini plasma tables out there? Something that would fit in a 1 m x 1 m x 1 m cube, ideally something that could be packed away when not being used.
With mills and lathes there are bench size options - not seeing this for plasma.
What I was suggesting is how to create something using an existing mill to behave / react like a plasma cutter for the purposes of testing without actually cutting any steel (reduces the barrier to try new ideas). The analog proximity sensors is purely to test height control ("surface following") in place of a real plasma torch. Having a proximity sensor follow a plywood sheet that has some thin profiles stuck to the surface would be a cheap testing (torture) ground before moving onto a real plasma bed where every cut has a price (for milling and turning there is machinable wax where you can just remelt the test piece for the next test).
Are you aware of any small / mini plasma tables out there? Something that would fit in a 1 m x 1 m x 1 m cube, ideally something that could be packed away when not being used.
With mills and lathes there are bench size options - not seeing this for plasma.
What I was suggesting is how to create something using an existing mill to behave / react like a plasma cutter for the purposes of testing without actually cutting any steel (reduces the barrier to try new ideas). The analog proximity sensors is purely to test height control ("surface following") in place of a real plasma torch. Having a proximity sensor follow a plywood sheet that has some thin profiles stuck to the surface would be a cheap testing (torture) ground before moving onto a real plasma bed where every cut has a price (for milling and turning there is machinable wax where you can just remelt the test piece for the next test).
breezy
Moderator
@zombieengineer
Re your question on our THC, it takes a divided voltage signal converts it into a digital signal that is processed by the software in MASSO. Setting parameters, ie arc voltage, feedrate are controlled by sliders on the F2 screen, same location as the override sliders.
As far as testing THC goes, Peter has developed a circuit using a proximity sensor on his router to produce a "divided voltage".
Also here is a sneak peak of our Multihead settings.
Regards,
Arie.
Re your question on our THC, it takes a divided voltage signal converts it into a digital signal that is processed by the software in MASSO. Setting parameters, ie arc voltage, feedrate are controlled by sliders on the F2 screen, same location as the override sliders.
As far as testing THC goes, Peter has developed a circuit using a proximity sensor on his router to produce a "divided voltage".
Also here is a sneak peak of our Multihead settings.
Regards,
Arie.
Attachments
zombieengineer
ZombieEngineer
@breezy
Thanks for the information - any ETA on the Multihead settings making the standard release? (nearest year quarter is close enough - been involved in industrial software development and appreciate how priorities can change very quickly and some developments need to be deferred).
If I understand correctly the prototype THC sends to the MASSO controller a digital up/down signal, so how is the arc voltage controlled? I suspect the spindle speed output (0-10V) is repurposed to provide the arc voltage reference (a couple of comparators against the reference voltage to provide the up/down signals).
Thanks for the information - any ETA on the Multihead settings making the standard release? (nearest year quarter is close enough - been involved in industrial software development and appreciate how priorities can change very quickly and some developments need to be deferred).
If I understand correctly the prototype THC sends to the MASSO controller a digital up/down signal, so how is the arc voltage controlled? I suspect the spindle speed output (0-10V) is repurposed to provide the arc voltage reference (a couple of comparators against the reference voltage to provide the up/down signals).
breezy
Moderator
@zombieengineer
No UP/DOWN signals.
Voltage is digitized and supplied to MASSO via input 9, special optocoupler, for speed. Compares digital signal in software and makes the necessary adjustments to Z axis.
Divider ratios accepted 20:1, 30:1, 50:1
Beta version in the next couple of months and major release by year end.
Regards,
Arie.
No UP/DOWN signals.
Voltage is digitized and supplied to MASSO via input 9, special optocoupler, for speed. Compares digital signal in software and makes the necessary adjustments to Z axis.
Divider ratios accepted 20:1, 30:1, 50:1
Beta version in the next couple of months and major release by year end.
Regards,
Arie.