Multicam AXYZ Conversion

red-dog

Red Dog
Hi there, Well the time has come to upgrade my Multicam CNC Router. It currently runs AXYZ on Win98. Yep win 98! Its been a solid machine but with the hardware on the computer side failing it was time to search for an alternative. So here I am! I have ordered and eagerly awaiting the arrival of the MASSO. So I have started the task of removing AXYZ. I will no doubt be diving into the brain trust of this forum for guidance. I have included some photos of my machine and the process I am going through and will keep you updated as it takes place.

My first Question, Is Masso compatible with Intelligent Motion Systems IM483 Stepper Drivers?
 

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red-dog

Red Dog
Thanks Breezy for referring me to that document, it is going to come in handy. I can now go ahead in making space in the control box for the Masso. I also endeavour to trouble shoot what wires are what with regards to the travel sensors. They are all the same colour! Fun times ahead.
 

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red-dog

Red Dog
Well, The Masso has arrived. Busy times ahead. I have done some trouble shooting with the limit Axyz sensors and E stop, turns out they are on the same circuit. They enter the control box and terminate on a small computer board. This board is powered by 18 volts there are 4 yellow wires leaving this board to go to control panel. Does anyone out there have experience with this set up. Will I have to separate all the sensors for Masso to recognise? Any help would be much appreciated.

Cheers
 

breezy

Arie
Staff member
Red Dog,

Do you have a basic wiring diagram for the machine? Which wires are connected to the 18v PS? Are there any other wires connected going to somewhere else? Hard to tell from photo.

Without knowing what the circuit board is supposed to do, it is not easy to give advice.
Will I have to separate all the sensors for Masso to recognise? Any help would be much appreciated

Yes, MASSO has separate inputs for each homing limit switch and E stop.

Regards,

Arie.
 

red-dog

Red Dog
Arie, thanks for getting back. As you look at the photo, top wires red/black 18v feed, left 4 yellow wires output to the Axyz controller and right red/black/white in-put from the sensors. No markings on board to suggest function. I would suggest it interprets the signals and fwd to axyz. I was thinking there was a set protocol on the way the Axyz homed the machine. Every time a sensor activated it would move to the next sequence. It's sequence was Z to x to y. I've searched Dr google for schematics on Axyz boards with no success. I could activate each sensor to see if there is any activity in the yellow wires! Other than that it's time to re-wire. Thanks for input.

Cheers Bruce
 

perry

perry
Honestly, I'd rewire it, and label everything as you go (These are fantastic labeling machines and can print on heat shrink tubing for labeling cables as well as on regular sticky labels).

I've done two similar projects with machines from the 1990s (not CNCs, but motion picture film scanners) and in both cases there was so much proprietary stuff in there with no documentation it just made sense to tear it apart and rewire everything from scratch).
 

breezy

Arie
Staff member
Bruce,
I was thinking there was a set protocol on the way the Axyz homed the machine. Every time a sensor activated it would move to the next sequence. It's sequence was Z to x to y.

No markings on board to suggest function. I would suggest it interprets the signals and fwd to axyz.

I've heard that some machines home in sequence with all limit sensors in series, so it expects the correct sensor is tripping the homing sequence. The IC's are some sort of stepping/latching arrangement and outputs signals on the 4 yellow wires.

I agree with Perry, the best thing to do is rewire so that each sensor & E stop has its' own circuit back to MASSO.

Regards,

Arie.
 

red-dog

Red Dog
Thanks Perry and Arie, re-wiring it is! Gives me a chance to get to know the machine on a different level. Booked in for tomorrow afternoon, will update with Pics.



Cheers
 

tayloredtech

TayloredTech
Quote from Red Dog on May 20, 2020, 7:32 am

Hi there, Well the time has come to upgrade my Multicam CNC Router. It currently runs AXYZ on Win98. Yep win 98! Its been a solid machine but with the hardware on the computer side failing it was time to search for an alternative. So here I am! I have ordered and eagerly awaiting the arrival of the MASSO. So I have started the task of removing AXYZ. I will no doubt be diving into the brain trust of this forum for guidance. I have included some photos of my machine and the process I am going through and will keep you updated as it takes place.

My first Question, Is Masso compatible with Intelligent Motion Systems IM483 Stepper Drivers?

Ha! That's the same as my Multicam.. I have done a full conversion if you need any info I literally know the machine back to front now. What Spindle do you have? HSD? Does it still run on an schneider altivar VFD?
 

red-dog

Red Dog
Howdy, I am based in Maryborough Qld Aus. The CNC is fitted with a 4hp perske motor ( I think, aas there are no markings and only going on what the previous owner info) yes it has the Avatar 18 speed controller. Looking at the limit sensors at the moment. They were all wired in the same circuit. Was this the same in your case. Did you use the existing sensors or did you fit new ones. I have so many qs. I have the machine jogging but very slow. Looking at the calibration as well. I will read through your forum before I start picking you brains. Thanks for getting in touch. Where are you based?
 

tayloredtech

TayloredTech
Quote from Red Dog on May 24, 2020, 5:41 pm

Howdy, I am based in Maryborough Qld Aus. The CNC is fitted with a 4hp perske motor ( I think, aas there are no markings and only going on what the previous owner info) yes it has the Avatar 18 speed controller. Looking at the limit sensors at the moment. They were all wired in the same circuit. Was this the same in your case. Did you use the existing sensors or did you fit new ones. I have so many qs. I have the machine jogging but very slow. Looking at the calibration as well. I will read through your forum before I start picking you brains. Thanks for getting in touch. Where are you based?

Ah yes, that is the model behind my one but another forum user here- Grant just picked up the identical one to yours and has it working well with my old G2 Masso controller.

The sensors on the machine are really expensive french onces from memory. They were all in series before but there was enough cabling going to each area to wire them all individually and send back to masso. They are 24V PNP type which means when the sensor is triggered they pass the 24V back to Masso which is ideal. The Perske spindle goes to 30,000RPM! and they are very strong so that's a big plus.

Original equipment is pretty old, including the stepper drives. I personally would gut it all but Grant got things working again with the existing power supply. He just added a 24V supply for the Masso. Importantly you will need to put 1000 pulses per rotation in for those stepper drives and you will probabaly get 20,000mm per minute feedrate and 200mm per second acceleration working but slowly work up to it.

Shoot me a list of questions here and I should be able to help.

You'll enjoy the machine much more than before once its all set up! Did you get a G2 or G3 Masso?

Mitch
 

red-dog

Red Dog
You are a Legend! This calibration is doing my head in. Can not wait to put those values in. The machines electrics are still in pretty good nick so will stick with it until it fails. It was working with Win 98 machines that was the issue, so time for an upgrade. I went with the G3. I will make that list of questions. I had printed out your feed a few days ago. Interesting reading especial with the speed controller. Did you stick with the Altivar 18 or did you move on? Cheers
 

tayloredtech

TayloredTech
Quote from Red Dog on May 24, 2020, 8:03 pm

You are a Legend! This calibration is doing my head in. Can not wait to put those values in. The machines electrics are still in pretty good nick so will stick with it until it fails. It was working with Win 98 machines that was the issue, so time for an upgrade. I went with the G3. I will make that list of questions. I had printed out your feed a few days ago. Interesting reading especial with the speed controller. Did you stick with the Altivar 18 or did you move on? Cheers

I can send you my actual settings to put in if you like but I have 2000 pulses as I have new drives on each axis. All my original parts ended up dying. They had some cement dust or something in everything. The drives caught on fire one at a time haha. The Altivar died about a year later. Pretty sure from using a generator to run the machine but it was old and hadn't been taken care of. There's a wiring diagram for the Altivar on Massos documentation but it'll be a little different as it was based off mine. Not hard to wire in though. Your spindle is single phase too..I think... So you're lucky there.

The X and Y axis are the same ratio for distance per revolution just FYI but best double check. Take the side panel off under where the button control mounts and double check the pulleys are the same as in the box on the gantry. Think it's 16t:65t or close to.

They did a pretty good job in the early design.
 

red-dog

Red Dog
Spindle is 3 phase. Like you, I have been running it off a generator. I have been looking into phase converters or if it is better off just getting single phase spindle. Again another side project! Any info you can send me would be great. With your sensors did they just go straight to masso or did you have to add a resistor? Cheers Bruce
 

tayloredtech

TayloredTech
Quote from Red Dog on May 24, 2020, 8:23 pm

Spindle is 3 phase. Like you, I have been running it off a generator. I have been looking into phase converters or if it is better off just getting single phase spindle. Again another side project! Any info you can send me would be great. With your sensors did they just go straight to masso or did you have to add a resistor? Cheers Bruce

No resistor needed. If they have a little light on them and blue top, they're the same.

Is there no way to get 3 phase there? How many Kw is it? If it's below 3 then a phase converter could be a good idea but native 3 phase always better plus you'll need to run a big circuit just to split the single to 3
 

red-dog

Red Dog
"Is there no way to get 3 phase there? How many Kw is it? If it's below 3 then a phase converter could be a good idea but native 3 phase always better plus you'll need to run a big circuit just to split the single to 3"

Did I mention I live in a country town on a dead end street with only single phase. I can get 3 phase but I have to pay for the upgrade of the street?. Thanks Mitch for your advice, I got the jogging smooth. The resolution tabs were marked high so I changed them which seemed to make all the difference. The only issue seems to be with the Pendant. There does not seem to be a change in speed between x10 and x100. Has anyone got suggestions?

More research to be done! Now I will be moving onto the sensors!
 

tayloredtech

TayloredTech
Quote from Red Dog on May 25, 2020, 11:00 am

"Is there no way to get 3 phase there? How many Kw is it? If it's below 3 then a phase converter could be a good idea but native 3 phase always better plus you'll need to run a big circuit just to split the single to 3"

Did I mention I live in a country town on a dead end street with only single phase. I can get 3 phase but I have to pay for the upgrade of the street?. Thanks Mitch for your advice, I got the jogging smooth. The resolution tabs were marked high so I changed them which seemed to make all the difference. The only issue seems to be with the Pendant. There does not seem to be a change in speed between x10 and x100. Has anyone got suggestions?

More research to be done! Now I will be moving onto the sensors!

What you plan on using the machine for, if its nothing crazy and no aluminum then you could change the spindle but the vfd wouldnt work with a single phase so its more money to spend. a phase converter it is then haha

Not sure what the deal is with the movement thought sorry
 
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