Multicam S2412 CNC

masso-support

MASSO Support
Staff member
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tayloredtech

TayloredTech
  • Early 2000's Multicam S2412 vacuum table CNC
  • 3.8Kw HSD spindle with pneumatic ISO30 tool change
  • Steel gantry
  • Controller board- various (canadian made) a full 4MB of memory...
  • Air-assist
  • I'm sure was bullet proof for many years.

What I am doing:

After the stepper drives all died in the first 2 weeks I have decided to remove all original electronics and start fresh.
  • MASSO Gen2 controller
  • Gecko 203V stepper drives x3
  • 48V 5A supplies for each axis
  • 12V 5A supply for Masso and cooling fans
  • 5V step down transformer for sensors
  • 2x 8 channel relay boards (TTL Input)
  • RTI XP8 automation controller with 8 relays and 8 dry contact/ voltage sense inputs for remote monitoring/ control
  • Intel NUC i5 PC for remote control and Fusion 360 designing/ camming.
  • Elo Touch systems 22 inch touch screen
  • Laser crosshair- because I can.
 

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masso-support

MASSO Support
Staff member
thanks for the info, so as the first step what have you already done on the machine and where are you at now. Next please let us know for what part you need help with and we will go through all the points.
 

testyourdesign

testyourdesign
Thats a great looking machine @tayloredtech . Really enjoy working with my DIY CNC router. I can do so much more in half the time it used to take me doing it manually. Did you get it working yet?
 

tayloredtech

TayloredTech
Quote from testyourdesign on August 31, 2018, 1:42 am

Thats a great looking machine @tayloredtech . Really enjoy working with my DIY CNC router. I can do so much more in half the time it used to take me doing it manually. Did you get it working yet?

Cheers @testyourdesign,

It was working with it's default Multicam controller until the X axis gave up, then the Z drive caught on fire... I am guessing there was a major issue with the board.

The Masso isn't installed yet and I had been spending 25 hours a weekend working everything, reverse engineering the machine so I have taken a weekend off but will certainly have it moving next weekend when it is all set up.
All Mean Well din rail powersupplies are in and ready along with sensors, wifi chip and relay boards so I think after a handful of Red Bulls next Saturday night she'll be moving again. There is no information online at all on the steppers so hopefully they are simple to control, if they give me any trouble I will just bench them and use some NEMA 34s.

I found the Y axis ran 1 single stepper but linked the rack/ pinion via a long steel axle so 3 motor drives is all I need.

Keep you posted
 

tayloredtech

TayloredTech
Quote from MASSO - Support on August 24, 2018, 8:43 pm

thanks for the info, so as the first step what have you already done on the machine and where are you at now. Next please let us know for what part you need help with and we will go through all the points.

Saturday I will mount all new drives and the Masso. I will wire the spindle controller as you recommended and see if I can get the axis calibrated with jerk etc. though that's the part I hate/ confuses me the most. If everything works out I will have 4 sensors in place, spindle speed control, soft and hard limits sorted and control of auxiliaries like pneumatic tool clamp on/ off and misting control.

Fingers cross no more fires!
 

tayloredtech

TayloredTech
Then and now. To think it costs over $10-20k to upgrade these boards with a manufacturer is a joke.

Been flat out at work so haven't got the board in yet but I will be up at the machine this weekend and fingers crossed I get everything in and we get the machine moving.

I will most probably need help with movement per revolutions etc. That stuff is what killed me on my hobby CNC... No specs for these steppers unfortunately.
 

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tayloredtech

TayloredTech
Quote from MASSO - Support on September 25, 2018, 7:32 pm

no worries @tayloredtech, just message in the forums when you are ready to calibrate and we can go over this via facebook chat or phone

That would be amazing thanks again,
 

tayloredtech

TayloredTech
Finally. We have movement again.

Connected to the motors and drives today and it's finally alive again!

See here: Massocam

I need help working out pulses per revolution and acceleration etc. The motors aren't standard steppers and there is no information anywhere online. All I know is they are 2.8v 3A old school steppers (see first post).

I knew 400 ppr was .9 micro steps per 360 degrees but tried it higher and it worked? What's advantages/ disadvantages of upping it? What does it do...

I had feedrate up to 4000 and it was still not that fast.. Could swear it was faster with its original set up but 4000 as a feedrate sounds really high?

I can work out distance per revolition easily enough by jogging the machine and doing the math but I'm trying to work out which settings are critical to go in first?

Cheers
 

tayloredtech

TayloredTech
Quote from MASSO - Support on October 18, 2018, 6:56 am

thanks for the info and the video, the motion is definitely way too slow.

Can you please share the MASSO software version and settings file as per this link https://www.masso.com.au/docs/masso...download-machine-profiles/save-load-settings/ and then we can go through the steps.

Please also provide details about the axis setup, ballscrew pitch etc

Here is a video of the machine with its original drives working at normal jog rate

All axis rack and pinion.

Y axis has belts down from gantry

Steppers have 1.8 degree steps. Would this mean a max of 200 pulses? what is the disadvantage/ advantages changing this if any?

The settings I have are just guessed numbers so not much to go by there

I will measure things this weekend and hopefully work out ratios etc.

Also I need to incorporate the Z brake and a bunch of other outputs somehow into the system?

Software is the latest you emailed out around a month or so ago

Feel free to come visit the central coast to have a look and help haha
 

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testyourdesign

testyourdesign
@taylordedtech the Gecko G203 are designed for 2000 PPR not 200. The MASSO software limits the jogging feed rate and doesn't allow us to change it yet. They have an update planned to allow us to change the jogging feed rate for larger machines like yours.
 

tayloredtech

TayloredTech
Quote from testyourdesign on October 18, 2018, 5:42 pm

@taylordedtech the Gecko G203 are designed for 2000 PPR not 200. The MASSO software limits the jogging feed rate and doesn't allow us to change it yet. They have an update planned to allow us to change the jogging feed rate for larger machines like yours.

Thanks for letting me know! Does it matter that the steppers are old and only 1.8 degrees? or is that irrelevant?

So that is the max speed I will get jogging until an update is available?

Cheers
 

testyourdesign

testyourdesign
Almost all steppers are 1.8 degrees. That's the standard so as long as they run the age doesn't matter. If you are using the keyboard then only options for jogging are presets for Slow or Rapid. You access the Rapid Jogging speed by pressing the SHIFT + the direction arrow you want to move.
 

tayloredtech

TayloredTech
Quote from testyourdesign on October 19, 2018, 12:59 am

Almost all steppers are 1.8 degrees. That's the standard so as long as they run the age doesn't matter. If you are using the keyboard then only options for jogging are presets for Slow or Rapid. You access the Rapid Jogging speed by pressing the SHIFT + the direction arrow you want to move.

Legend, cheers.

Will have a play tonight after a few redbulls.

Yew
 

masso-support

MASSO Support
Staff member
@tayloredtech the motor step angle is not an issue. The first step before being able to anything on speeds or acceleration is to calibrate the movements. So right now is the axis movement calibrated? if you say it to move X10 then does it move exactly 10mm?
 

tayloredtech

TayloredTech
Quote from MASSO - Support on October 20, 2018, 3:54 am

@tayloredtech the motor step angle is not an issue. The first step before being able to anything on speeds or acceleration is to calibrate the movements. So right now is the axis movement calibrated? if you say it to move X10 then does it move exactly 10mm?

Yep. I calibrated them today though the positioning stuff really does confuse me. It's supposed to back off 5mm but sometimes is 4 point something, or 5 point something. Also when watching it HOME it can say it's position is like random number 3250mm then hit sensor and back off to 5mm.

I just don't understand where these numbers come from as the max distance is like 2500mm X and 1300 Y. I'll HOME the machine then restart the Masso and still sometimes get random numbers in there until it homes again.
 
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