P1-P16 Outputs linked to input

tayloredtech

TayloredTech
The 16 M62/63 P1-16 currently can only be activated via MDI and preset in G-Code.

I think it would be very useful for the Masso outputs to be able to be triggered from Masso inputs, so things such as compressors, dust extraction etc. can be turned on from their control panel via push buttons as well as G-code etc.

This would mean while the job is in progress the dust extraction or water/oil pump can be activated via Masso. I currently have a 3rd party syustem with relays controlling this but I have many inputs and outputs on Masso doing nothing...

*Also being able to NAME these outputs would be fantastic.

Cheers

Mitch
 

stevefrisby

SteveFrisby
@cncnutz

@masso-support

The approach to inputs and outputs on Masso needs a complete revamp in my opinion, They actually make a point of advertising how many inputs and outputs the device has, they even advertise it as having two analogue inputs but as far as I know you cant assign anything to them.

Honestly the rest of the product is pretty amazing considering the other options

But advertising inputs and outputs you cant use is wrong and I am pretty sure illegal in Australia, I know we have spoken about this before (The ability to assign inputs and outputs) maybe they should advertise the actual available amount of assignments rather than actual inputs and outputs.

Basically we could return our controllers on the basis that they do not perform as advertised

I honestly think you should be able to right click on any button or fader on the Masso screen and assign it to an input or output (with the option of naming the input or output) would solve this issue to be honest the coding to do this is school level, Also I doubt it would take up much of the resources available to the controller as there should be an input and output routine already in code (And if they use an interrupt routine for the inputs which i assume they do already there would be no impact on this either). This is simple coding, the actual routine that the button activates is already coded all I am asking for is a way of linking an input to a screen button press. What you are asking for is kind of the same

I agree about the dust extraction, it should be an option in setup that when you start a gcode file dust extraction relay or output will start. It is very annoying to have to turn on dust extraction and then run Gcode file. The number of times I cant be bothered turning on dust extraction on manually and end up with a mess is probably around the 40% mark (I Have ADHD so priorities just go out the window), Also a water pump output would be amazing my pump make so much noise. Maybe a GCode running output (Maybe it exists already) could be tied to a relay and contactor so switched mains could run both when gcode is running.

Btw i was researching building an open builds CNC router for a friend and have told him to go with their new controller mainly due to price and it has stepper drivers built in, it is a small unit just to get him going he has already made a commitment to buy mine when I die. I did notice though they have a cell phone app already that gives full control of the cnc functions (Actually I think it emulates the control screen) If Masso wants to truly develop leading edge technology and become established as the go to for CNC controllers they might need to wake up and see what the competition is doing. Masso already is running the esp 8266 I think what ever they have WiFi control built in we can send files over it (WOW) but why not turn it into something amazing, This is a Product I recommend but I think they need to come up to speed with their connectivity.

For most users it has all they need but I want more, I also thought they actually listened and added features on the forum. I have come to the understanding that they are basically relying on others to provide free technical support and promotion of their product but not actually giving any features or applying suggestions in return, it seems pretty unfair to me also.

When was the last time you actually saw Masso Support reply to anyone on the introductions page, or actually reply to anything at All

My rant is over but in a nutshell Masso support has gone to sleep and others are doing their Job for them ( Peter you are doing an amazing Job I hope they are giving you the respect and payment you deserve )

Mitch you are a ledgend

Cheers Steve
 

evermech

evermech
Hey Steve let's not forget @breezy he's solid with the Masso.

What I asked for about a year ago was the ability to name inputs or outputs anything that you want instead of the few that you can select from. I also would like to see the ability to use some ladder logic within the controller. I would think with a few hundred words of memory and some timers and counters , along with the basic contacts and coils, you would be able to get the Masso to do almost anything. Very handy for OEM equiment builders like myself, that rarely stick to the conventional approach.

Cheers. Guy
 

stevefrisby

SteveFrisby
Yes Many thanks to @breezy He has been very helpful with a few questions I have had

I have had to Google ladder logic so my understanding is limited but

Would you be able to get ladder logic operating on a embedded controller running off the ins and outs supplied by Masso G3 if those ins and outs were available? as was thinking that adding another layer of complexity might end up with Masso deciding to do nothing.

Maybe get them to agree on the concept and work towards ladder logic page on the Masso screen itself, or the ability to import a program file maybe.

Thanks to you all

Steve
 

tayloredtech

TayloredTech
Hey guys, I agree with much of what you are saying but if we can keep to the initial request in this thread it would be great.. I understand all the frustration as I've been here a while now! but nothing will get added if we bombard them in each thread.

Apps and macros would be great as we've talked about before but I want @masso-support to acknowledge this small request first :)

Cheers guys
 

stevefrisby

SteveFrisby
I Totally agree as I know we all have left various requests all over the place, I am guilty of this. I have never really engaged in a forum as such before.

So is the request the ability to map an input to a function (Mouse Press) on the existing Masso screens and also map that or the result of that or the to an output with the ability to name either input or output

For example 'Probe Z' (Using the probing screen) with an output that can be assigned to go high while probing Z is in operation.

Hey Mitch I would like to contact you regarding an unrelated matter if possible could you please contact me on

stephen then underscore then frisby at the place that does hot and mail

I really do hope we see a bunch of people join this discussion as it is going to allow for the Masso product to be used to its full potential.

For instance I saw one post from a guy wanting to have old school pot to control an override for movement and spindle speed (I don't even know if you can do this with the Masso does it have a x,y,z speed override and spindle speed override feature). Would be simple if you could assign a analogue input to the override (I Just checked with a search for Analog inputs on Masso documentation and got no results as the answer @masso-support what are these inputs for?) I told him to contact Masso support but I am guessing they have just lost a potential customer due to lacking a feature that I am sure every CNC controller ever made has

Anyway maybe if I have time I will have a look through the forums and add as many people as I can who have been asking the same question to this thread (I have a feeling that there will be a lot)

Cheers

Steve
 

stevefrisby

SteveFrisby
Arie you are a true legend, I Hope Masso will add the keyboard and key shortcuts to the list of assignable inputs then

Btw I hope you are doing well in the current environment, Honestly you and the others on this page along with Peter and many others are one of the reasons I decided to purchase and therefore support Masso.

What is your opinion of what Mitch is asking for? Do you want more functionality to the ins and outs of the Masso Product?, how would you like to see this implemented?

I value your opinion and think Masso does also.

Thank you also for helping me with the dumb questions, and getting my CNC converted quickly

Cheers Steve
 

stevefrisby

SteveFrisby
Have seen yet another prospective customer asking about control of spindle speed and feed rates via analog inputs, these guys are loosing customers due to a simple addition to their input section (If the analog inputs actually work at all)

Mitch I really think that having inputs and outputs assignable on mpg, actual input, keyboard, and mouse click all over the place is really letting this product down. I Am really starting to understand your frustration as you have had a simple request for a long time and Masso seem to not even as you say acknowledge your request. I find it weird that they will respond to other people on the forum but have no comment when it comes to inputs and outputs

@masso-support can you please at least respond with some sort of reason why inputs and outputs are not even worthy of some sort of discussion from you

I almost have a android mpg up and running. But to get the features I would like to implement I would need to emulate a hid keyboard, connect to the mpg inputs, and the actual inputs and even then would not get the functionality I would like.

@masso-support honestly Mitch, Arie, Guy and many others have provided free technical support for your product I think at least some sort of response to the requests that they have had for years would be in order.
 

evermech

evermech
Quote from SteveFrisby on May 24, 2020, 10:08 pm



Would you be able to get ladder logic operating on a embedded controller running off the ins and outs supplied by Masso G3 if those ins and outs were available? as was thinking that adding another layer of complexity might end up with Masso deciding to do nothing.

Steve

Yah you could incorporate a Plc in front of the Masso and use it to trigger the Masso inputs as needed, even output from Masso to Plc, do something more complicated with that,but why should we need to when there are plenty of I/o available. Just looking for more flexibility. I do believe MachMotion system has better I/o functionality but it's windows based so hard to live with imo

Guy
 

tayloredtech

TayloredTech
Hey guys,

Again can we please stay on topic. If people agree with my initial request, things might happen but adding more things about apps and adding chips before Masso is just taking this feature request off subject and I don't want the request disregarded

I know you understand :)

We just need more forum users to say +1 to this request first. One step at a time.

Mitch
 

cncnutz

CNCnutz
Staff member
Hi Mitch,

Could you elaborate on how you envision the inputs you are requesting would work in a bit more detail. It may help clarify the request.
You are requesting a button to turn on an output.

Does that mean when you remove your finger from the button that the output turns off or does it remain on?
If it remains on do you require a 2nd button to turn it off or will it be turned off by Gcode.
If it only stays on when your finger is on the button it may not be useful for something like dust extraction but might be ideal for momentary solenoid operation.
Are you thinking the button would be a toggle changing the output state? Allowing you to turn the output on ad off (I'm suspecting this is what you are thinking of and would make the most sense)

Cheers
Peter
 

supman

SUPMAN
Quote from TayloredTech on May 23, 2020, 5:20 pm

The 16 M62/63 P1-16 currently can only be activated via MDI and preset in G-Code.

I think it would be very useful for the Masso outputs to be able to be triggered from Masso inputs, so things such as compressors, dust extraction etc. can be turned on from their control panel via push buttons as well as G-code etc.

Mitch

would this not work?https://docs.masso.com.au/getting-started-guides/machining-with-masso/auto-loading-g-code

Stop/Start or pulse buttons on Control panel to send signal to inputs on Masso or direct to whatever would work would it not?
 

tayloredtech

TayloredTech
Quote from CNCnutz on June 3, 2020, 8:19 pm

Hi Mitch,

Could you elaborate on how you envision the inputs you are requesting would work in a bit more detail. It may help clarify the request.
You are requesting a button to turn on an output.

Does that mean when you remove your finger from the button that the output turns off or does it remain on?
If it remains on do you require a 2nd button to turn it off or will it be turned off by Gcode.
If it only stays on when your finger is on the button it may not be useful for something like dust extraction but might be ideal for momentary solenoid operation.
Are you thinking the button would be a toggle changing the output state? Allowing you to turn the output on ad off (I'm suspecting this is what you are thinking of and would make the most sense)

Cheers
Peter

Yes so an input staying high would turn the output on, then going low would turn it off. So if using a push button it would have to have an on and off state like an estop has an on and off state. The option of a toggle function in Masso would be nice but would require more work that I don't think is needed right now.

Naming the inputs/outputs like P1-xxxx, P2-xxxx would help track things and keep things safe so nothing is engaged incorrectly during the cutting cycle.

Thanks Peter.

Mitch
 

tayloredtech

TayloredTech
Quote from SUPMAN on June 3, 2020, 11:59 pm

Quote from TayloredTech on May 23, 2020, 5:20 pm

The 16 M62/63 P1-16 currently can only be activated via MDI and preset in G-Code.

I think it would be very useful for the Masso outputs to be able to be triggered from Masso inputs, so things such as compressors, dust extraction etc. can be turned on from their control panel via push buttons as well as G-code etc.

Mitch

would this not work?https://docs.masso.com.au/getting-started-guides/machining-with-masso/auto-loading-g-code

Stop/Start or pulse buttons on Control panel to send signal to inputs on Masso or direct to whatever would work would it not?

It would work if they aren't already in use. I'll be using these for homing A and B axis as there isn't a home input for them currently plus you would need one dedicated for on and off so you would only get 3 input/ outputs if used that way.

Mitch
 

stevefrisby

SteveFrisby
Ok Mitch I again am sorry for going off topic, Hopefully If they look into your request they might realize its about time they revamped their entire IO functionality, I would like to see Masso grant your request but then open up a discussion regarding a total upgrade to IO with them actually interacting in that discussion

I can see this would be pretty good way to add to extra functionality to the Masso

I would imagine you are talking about a input (Not sure about Toggle) that would effectively be the equivalent of issuing a M62/63 command with G code override?

like you say a Vac button assigned to p1 (With the ability to label it as Vac) could be pressed and basically after the first motion command Vac would turn on, pressing the switch again would issue m63 or m65 giving a manual vac off or after g code has finished a m63 or m65 p1 would turn the vac off

So the switch would basically be equivalent to m62 or m64 linked to output p1 to p16 (with ability to name the in or out) first press would be equivalent of M62/64 p1-p16 second would be equivalent of m63/65 p1-p16 or actual m62/64, m63/65 would override switch and either turn off or on the output

so basically a push switch with a bezel (linked to the output) would allow for manual or g code control of accesories
 

stevefrisby

SteveFrisby
Btw Mitch I really like this feature request (How do we get more people linked to this discussion)

I really think a momentary switch which either issues an off (If output is on) and On (If output is off) would be great as you could turn a device on or off with the switch and it could interact with g code settings

Say G Code is set to turn vac on pressing switch would turn it off if you wanted or if g code doesn't turn on the vac pressing the switch would turn it on and vise versa

My spindle water pump makes more noise than the entire machine it would be great to press a switch so G code running would turn it on (First move) and either G code turns it off after job is done (If it is in the code) or pressing switch would turn off pump
 

evermech

evermech
Oops sorry Mitch,

yes the use of latching p/b's like an e stop, or momentary contact switches like a start button could be used depending on the application.


Quote from TayloredTech on June 4, 2020, 12:19 am

Quote from SUPMAN on June 3, 2020, 11:59 pm

Quote from TayloredTech on May 23, 2020, 5:20 pm

The 16 M62/63 P1-16 currently can only be activated via MDI and preset in G-Code.

I think it would be very useful for the Masso outputs to be able to be triggered from Masso inputs, so things such as compressors, dust extraction etc. can be turned on from their control panel via push buttons as well as G-code etc.

Mitch

I know I keep going on about it but this is the sort of thing that a Plc happens to be very good at.

After having said that I agree that we need to keep,it simple for Masso and use small steps, I am in support of your feature request,

Guy
 

cncnutz

CNCnutz
Staff member
Hi Mitch,

It sounds like what you are requesting is a software solution that does the same as the drawing below.

The big difference is that the switch is moved to the output instead on an input. The switch can be either momentary or latching for things like dust collection and coolant pump as you wanted.
The Diode is there to block voltage from going into the Masso TTL output and basically acts as a logic OR gate.
The 5 volt supply can be from a 5 volt voltage regulator, plug in 5 volt power supply or derived from a simple 2 resistor potential divider using the existing Masso Power supply.
When the switch is operated it turns on the TTL device and when off the Masso TTL output will control the device as normal.

The advantage of this over a software solution is that it does want you are wanting and you can have it yesterday. It is realistically no more complex that connecting a switch to an input and programming.
It is not subject to software bugs now or in the future. It is not subject to how the programmer thinks it should work. For this reason I personally favor simple hardware solutions over a software one, where practical and I think this one falls into that category. Technically we are just moving the switch from one side of Masso to the other.

Mitch what are your thoughts and if you think it is what you want I am happy to help you further with it.

Cheers Peter
 

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tayloredtech

TayloredTech
Quote from CNCnutz on June 5, 2020, 10:14 pm

Hi Mitch,

It sounds like what you are requesting is a software solution that does the same as the drawing below.

The big difference is that the switch is moved to the output instead on an input. The switch can be either momentary or latching for things like dust collection and coolant pump as you wanted.
The Diode is there to block voltage from going into the Masso TTL output and basically acts as a logic OR gate.
The 5 volt supply can be from a 5 volt voltage regulator, plug in 5 volt power supply or derived from a simple 2 resistor potential divider using the existing Masso Power supply.
When the switch is operated it turns on the TTL device and when off the Masso TTL output will control the device as normal.

The advantage of this over a software solution is that it does want you are wanting and you can have it yesterday. It is realistically no more complex that connecting a switch to an input and programming.
It is not subject to software bugs now or in the future. It is not subject to how the programmer thinks it should work. For this reason I personally favor simple hardware solutions over a software one, where practical and I think this one falls into that category. Technically we are just moving the switch from one side of Masso to the other.

Mitch what are your thoughts and if you think it is what you want I am happy to help you further with it.

Cheers Peter

Hey Pete,

I currently have a 3rd party control system with a touch screen controlling these outputs by a secondary relay system.. the main point in the feature request is so other users and myself can make use of what Masso is already offering with all the relay outputs. I would be very hard pressed to believe anyone in an industrial or DIY workshop is actually using more than 4 relays because the system is flawed. I could add the circuitry as you designed but can you see how simple the idea is.

I'll give you an example.

System start. Spindle start and commencing cutting.. you then went to turn on the dust extractor (if dust boot is needed) by default I would have a Px off command in the post processor but I don't want it always turning on. This would be the same with a water pump for the mister. Compressor would turn on as the Masso turns on (connected as N/C) the relay could be turned off via an input when the machine doesn't need to be activated.

Obviously there are a few people here that would find it a good addition. I am going to have to keep my system as is.

Mitch
 
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