Spindle Analog Output Drive Capability?

C

clover

clover
Hey @masso-support what is the drive sourcing capability of the Spindle Analog output port (Pin 1) ? I assume the DAC is buffered? Is this information documented anywhere?

It would be nice to have a simplified schematic of all the available I/O ports for us more electronically versed. I don't think it would be giving away too much proprietary information.
 
tayloredtech

tayloredtech

TayloredTech
Quote from clover on November 14, 2018, 4:07 am

Hey @masso-support what is the drive sourcing capability of the Spindle Analog output port (Pin 1) ? I assume the DAC is buffered? Is this information documented anywhere?

It would be nice to have a simplified schematic of all the available I/O ports for us more electronically versed. I don't think it would be giving away too much proprietary information.
Click to expand...

Not trying to be rude so please excuse my lack of knowledge but what would this be used for? isn't it a simple 0-10v output?
 
C

clover

clover
Thank you for your question. One never knows unless one asks @tayloredtech so it is not being rude. Yes it is indeed 0-10v out but like every battery or AC outlet in the home it also has to supply some current into the circuit or equipment it feeds, it's the current that does the work.

I imagine different speed control circuits will require different amounts of current, most probably require a very low current perhaps in the microamp (0.000001 amps) range.

My situation is that I don't want to use the 0-10v analog to vary the speed of my spindle (a standard Makita woodworking router). I simply want an on-off control - when the analog out is above say 3v the router will turn on and then turn off when it drops below 3v. In order to do this I want to the 0-10v output to operate a relay. A standard relay will require not microamps but 20 or so milliamps (0.02 amps) hence my question about how much current can the 0-10v output supply (source).

Since making the request above I have in the spindle setup screen set the VFD output so that @ 5,000RPM I get 10v output (I don't use my router below this speed). The output voltage in my case will now be 10v with the M03 command and 0v with the M05 command, effectively an on-off control (provided of course the speed setting in my Gcode is 5,000 or higher). As it turns out the Masso is able to supply the necessary current at this voltage to turn on and off my spindle relay. I should add that this particular relay operates with about 1 milliamp current at about 8v so the analog output is not driving a standard relay.

@tayloredtech hope this hasn't been too technical or rambling.

@masso-support even though I have the system working satisfactorily, for future reference I would still like to know the sourcing capabilities of this output. Many thanks.
 
tayloredtech

tayloredtech

TayloredTech
Quote from clover on November 14, 2018, 12:15 pm

Thank you for your question. One never knows unless one asks @tayloredtech so it is not being rude. Yes it is indeed 0-10v out but like every battery or AC outlet in the home it also has to supply some current into the circuit or equipment it feeds, it's the current that does the work.

I imagine different speed control circuits will require different amounts of current, most probably require a very low current perhaps in the microamp (0.000001 amps) range.

My situation is that I don't want to use the 0-10v analog to vary the speed of my spindle (a standard Makita woodworking router). I simply want an on-off control - when the analog out is above say 3v the router will turn on and then turn off when it drops below 3v. In order to do this I want to the 0-10v output to operate a relay. A standard relay will require not microamps but 20 or so milliamps (0.02 amps) hence my question about how much current can the 0-10v output supply (source).

Since making the request above I have in the spindle setup screen set the VFD output so that @ 5,000RPM I get 10v output (I don't use my router below this speed). The output voltage in my case will now be 10v with the M03 command and 0v with the M05 command, effectively an on-off control (provided of course the speed setting in my Gcode is 5,000 or higher). As it turns out the Masso is able to supply the necessary current at this voltage to turn on and off my spindle relay. I should add that this particular relay operates with about 1 milliamp current at about 8v so the analog output is not driving a standard relay.

@tayloredtech hope this hasn't been too technical or rambling.

@masso-support even though I have the system working satisfactorily, for future reference I would still like to know the sourcing capabilities of this output. Many thanks.
Click to expand...

Oh ok, I understand all that thanks, just wasn't sure about the buffering and the digital conversion part. The 0-10 is just for speed control of the VFD or PWM reg. My spindle turns on fwd/rev through the transistor pins then can be ramped 0-10 but I see what you were going to do. One issue I could see is that some relays would say X volts but turn on earlier and turn off later in the voltage range like a 12v automotive relay I use in a solar charging circuit stays active until under 5v some times. Possibly solid states would be more accurate.
 
C

clover

clover
Thank you @masso-support. As it turns out I cannot use your recommended method for stop/start of the spindle. Pin 2 only outputs 5v TTL levels and my particular relay board requires a minimum drive of 8v. I could level shift 5v to 8v but that would require additional circuitry whereas my method gives me 10v drive for my relay board without additional components.
One issue I could see is that some relays would say X volts but turn on earlier and turn off later in the voltage range like a 12v automotive relay I use in a solar charging circuit stays active until under 5v some times.
Click to expand...

This is not an issue for me @tayloredtech but thanks for the heads-up. Having got the spindle starting and stopping I am now working on getting my dust extractor to auto power up a second or so after the spindle starts and power down when the spindle stops. The delayed start is because both the spindle and the dust extractor are powered from the same mains outlet (240vAC) and this will minimise the inrush current and hopefully reduce any RFI at startup.

@masso-support is there any way I can do this with Masso's relay outputs?
 
tayloredtech

tayloredtech

TayloredTech
Quote from clover on November 15, 2018, 8:08 am

Thank you @masso-support. As it turns out I cannot use your recommended method for stop/start of the spindle. Pin 2 only outputs 5v TTL levels and my particular relay board requires a minimum drive of 8v. I could level shift 5v to 8v but that would require additional circuitry whereas my method gives me 10v drive for my relay board without additional components.
One issue I could see is that some relays would say X volts but turn on earlier and turn off later in the voltage range like a 12v automotive relay I use in a solar charging circuit stays active until under 5v some times.
Click to expand...

This is not an issue for me @tayloredtech but thanks for the heads-up. Having got the spindle starting and stopping I am now working on getting my dust extractor to auto power up a second or so after the spindle starts and power down when the spindle stops. The delayed start is because both the spindle and the dust extractor are powered from the same mains outlet (240vAC) and this will minimise the inrush current and hopefully reduce any RFI at startup.

@masso-support is there any way I can do this with Masso's relay outputs?
Click to expand...

Using pins 4 and 5 you can feed a voltage (8v+) in and it will output it on the other pin when you send a M3 code. That is how my HSD is working. I am using the VFDs 24V supply which comes back to feed its CW input. I think it was pin 7 that feeds it's CCW for M4, obviously M5 turns these both off.

Hope that helps.
 
masso-support

masso-support

MASSO Support
Staff member
as per the link that we shared earlier, the relay board mentioned there is easy to get from ebay or Amazon and they have the electronics to be able to drive 12v or 24v relays and they take in 5v TTL signals.

The 0-10v output might not work for you as on M3/M5 command the voltage on this pins does not change, only the S command changes voltage on this pin.
 
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