Spindle cooling control

breezy

Arie
Staff member
I'm a newbie on CNC.

I'm assembling a 3DTek Heavy Mill for the Bicton Men's Shed and I want to make it as fool proof as possible.

What we want to happen is when a G code spindle start command is issued it starts the coolant pump and approx 30 seconds after the coolant flow switch closes the VFD is enabled and starts the spindle. I have checked the VFD manual and there isn't a parameter to set for a delayed start, so the delay has to come from the MASSO unit.

Is this possible or I do need to modify Fusion 360's MASSO post to generate G codes to do this. (I was a software programmer in a past life)

Regards,

Arie.
 

masso-support

MASSO Support
Staff member
Hi Arie

There is no direct way of doing this, one way is to connect it to the spindle CW signal but then the pump will stop as soon as the spindle stops and will not properly cool down the spindle.

If you are happy to add to the post processor then you can use M62 and M63 but if using MDI for some reason someone forgets to turn on the coolant then you can end up damaging the spindle. We have seen that mostly the pump is powered on with the machine power and runs all the time, what would be really good to add is a feedback that the coolant is flowing.

One of our client had an issue with the pipes getting blocked and there was no flow and the spindle got over heated, we have been thinking to add an input signal to the MASSO from a simple cost effective flow sensor so that for whatever reason if the pipes get blocked or the pump stops then the feedback will show an alarm on the MASSO.

If you are happy then we can add this option and if you can install the sensor and help with trials then we will be happy to add this as we only add features what people want and use.
 

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breezy

Arie
Staff member
OK - I can connect the coolant pump to come on when we fire up the MASSO - so we have spindle coolant flowing anytime the MASSO is working.

AC 220V 3A 22mm Plastic Vertical Horizontal Magnetic Water Flow Switch w/Sensor
This is the flow switch we have ordered. Water Flow Switch Vertical/Horizontal Sensor Magnetic

I was originally going to place it in series with the Estop, so coolant stops machine stops. If you add it as an alarm to MASSO that would also stop the machine we certainly would like it.

It will be awhile before we are ready to test this feature.

Regards,

Arie.
 

masso-support

MASSO Support
Staff member
Sure Arie, we can add this to our development list.

Can you please provide some information about the wiring and signal output of the sensor. Most likely it will have 3 wires:
  • Power -ve
  • Power +ve
  • Signal out - this should be pulses as the propeller in the sensor rotates.
 

breezy

Arie
Staff member
It's a simple magnetic flow switch. Two wire operation. Sensitivity is adjusted by moving the reed switch to operate when the desired flow rate is reached.

Regards, Arie.
 

masso-support

MASSO Support
Staff member
oh ok, so basically we can just run the +ve from the MASSO power supply through the reed switch and feed to one of the inputs on the MASSO, too easy :)
 

masso-support

MASSO Support
Staff member
Hi @breezy

we have added the "Spindle Coolant Flow Alarm Input" to the software. Once this input is assigned, MASSO will keep a watch on the pulses and if no pulses are received then the machine motion will be stopped including the spindle. This alarm is only active when the spindle is running to avoid false alarms.

You will receive an email with this feature added to the software in the next few days, please give your feedback after trying on the machine.
 

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eti

eti
Masso

can you make this input respond to a closed contact as well, so pulses or closed?

my flow switches have dry contact outputs that are closed when flow is within range

if not I can set to have PWM output from flow sensors
 

masso-support

MASSO Support
Staff member
a new sensor type!! well we can add another input for this type, will you be able to share the flow sensor model and photos just for our reference.
 

testyourdesign

testyourdesign
Quote from Breezy on July 26, 2018, 11:57 am

I'm a newbie on CNC.

I'm assembling a 3DTek Heavy Mill for the Bicton Men's Shed and I want to make it as fool proof as possible.

What we want to happen is when a G code spindle start command is issued it starts the coolant pump and approx 30 seconds after the coolant flow switch closes the VFD is enabled and starts the spindle. I have checked the VFD manual and there isn't a parameter to set for a delayed start, so the delay has to come from the MASSO unit.

Is this possible or I do need to modify Fusion 360's MASSO post to generate G codes to do this. (I was a software programmer in a past life)

Regards,

Arie.

Arie, Just had a thought.... couldn't you simply implement a time delay relay on the spindle DCM circuit and control that relay with MASSO to achieve the time delay you need?
 

eti

eti
Quote from MASSO - Support on August 9, 2018, 2:00 am

a new sensor type!! well we can add another input for this type, will you be able to share the flow sensor model and photos just for our reference.

nope same type as Breezy, closed contact when flow is good, open when it is not.

all flow "switches" are this type ie dry contact closed / open (also can be NPN / PNP)

flow "sensors" like the white one you posted give a flow value ie GPM, in form of pulse, 0-10v or 4-20ma (pulse can be relay / dry contact or NPN / PNP)



so yes it would be nice to have both, but for the "sensors" you will need to be able to set the PWM to make sure there is enough flow (don't think anyone will use 0-10v or 4-20ma due to cost)

and for "switches" the ability to set an anti-chatter value (time delay) to make sure momentary changes in flow or chatter of the switch contact do not stop the machine, unless open for X time.
 

masso-support

MASSO Support
Staff member
So the logic that we have used is that MASSO will monitor the pulses and if no pulse received for 10 seconds then give an alarm.
 

breezy

Arie
Staff member
Quote from testyourdesign on August 9, 2018, 2:43 am

Arie, Just had a thought.... couldn't you simply implement a time delay relay on the spindle DCM circuit and control that relay with MASSO to achieve the time delay you need?

Have decided to keep it simple, wire the coolant pump to have it run continuously and monitor the flow with a Masso input, when the Masso is switched on.
 

breezy

Arie
Staff member
Quote from MASSO - Support on August 6, 2018, 7:06 am

Hi @breezy

we have added the "Spindle Coolant Flow Alarm Input" to the software. Once this input is assigned, MASSO will keep a watch on the pulses and if no pulses are received then the machine motion will be stopped including the spindle. This alarm is only active when the spindle is running to avoid false alarms.

You will receive an email with this feature added to the software in the next few days, please give your feedback after trying on the machine.

Unfortunately it will be a month or more before we get to the point to test this, as I can only work on this project one day a week for about two hours as life gets in the way.

And as "eti" stated my flow switch only has two states, open (no flow) or closed (flow), it doesn't generate pulses. So the ability to detect closed or pulses would allow both types of flow sensors to be used. The rest of alarm input response is OK.

Regards,

Arie.
 

bictonmensshed

BictonMensShed
Well I have finally reached the stage that I can check this coolant flow alarm.

Have it set up to produce a high status when the flow stops but it doesn't bring up an alarm when it goes high.

Have set up this account at the Bicton Men's Shed, which will only be monitored on Monday's when I attend the shed.

Regards,

Arie.

PS. The machine number is 5A-1801
 

masso-support

MASSO Support
Staff member
What type of flow sensor are you using, will it be sending pulses to the MASSO?

The alarm input is setup in a way that if the spindle in running with M3 or M4 and if there is no pulses on the input signal for 10 seconds then you will get an alarm.

Please note that the flow alarm input will not be monitored when the spindle is switched off.
 

breezy

Arie
Staff member
Quote from Breezy on August 14, 2018, 8:43 am

And as "eti" stated my flow switch only has two states, open (no flow) or closed (flow), it doesn't generate pulses. So the ability to detect closed or pulses would allow both types of flow sensors to be used.

As per my previous post the flow switch has been set up using the invert bit to go high when there is no flow. There are NO pulses when the coolant is flowing.

I test it by issuing a M3 command when I'm next at the shed.

Regards,

Arie.

For the Bicton Men's Shed.
 

masso-support

MASSO Support
Staff member
will the signal remain low when the flow is good? because we will need pluses (signal going low and high) for the logic to work. Signal remaining low or high will generate an alarm on MASSO as no flow.
 

breezy

Arie
Staff member
The signal is steady state low (coolant flowing) or high (no flow).

NO pulses. It is a simple on/off flow switch.
 
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