Syil x4+ parallel port

[locomobile]

Hi

Having recently purchased two Masso units I am starting to connect the first to my Syil x4+Milling machine. This machine has run for a number of years via a parallel port setup on an Ethernet Smoothstepper. I have decided to move to Masso to eliminate Windows

I have a high spinal injury and am anxious not to have to do a complete teardown of the machine to use Masso. The machine has a type of breakout board that manages connections. I also make good use of the manual control the machine offers using its own MPG when not in CNC mode.In short, I would like to use the parallel cable to connect to Masso.

The connections are easily made using a simple parallel breakout connector. Cable pinout is below. When using Mach3 both signal pins need to be as shown below and set to active low

Pin table attached

Signal 1 (pin 1) is mapped to Output 1

Signal 2 (pin 9) is mapped to charge pump

My question, is this possible and if thought to be, how to manage the two signal outputs

Many thanks in advance

David

 

[testyourdesign]

@locomobile

The Masso Controller will need to replace the smooth stepper breakout board as Masso outputs directly to the motor drivers and connects directly to sensor inputs. It's not meant to replace a computer by itself. It's designed to replace both the PC and the breakout board.

Hope this helps!

Cheers, Stephen Brown

Masso Club Member #1

 

[breezy]

@locomobile

David,

As Stephen has already mentioned MASSO connects directly to your motor drivers and spindle control.

So all you need to do is move the connections from the Smoothstepper to the corresponding connections on MASSO. So you can mount MASSO where the Smoothstepper is and you should be in business. You will only need to provide a monitor and keyboard / mouse combo which can come from your PC.

Regards,

Arie.

 

[locomobile]

Thank you both

I have made or rewired several machines centred arround Mach3, Mach4, LinuxCNC (parallel port and Mesa) and PlanetCNC. Arie you have answered one of my questions in that it should be possible to move connections from Smoothstepper to Masso. I have tried this with one axis, E-stop, ground and the pin designated for charge pump. I fall at the first hurdle as on powering up I have been unable to hear the charge pump relay operate and nothing works. I have tested my pin designation and it appears correct. Is there a way for Masso to output a signal to the charge pump pin on boot?

I am also trying to contact a tech guru who knows the Syil machine well as the manual shows how to constantly enable charge pump (independence from external signal) using a jumper but the card on my machine does not match the manual.

Hoping you can help me make progress

David

 

[zombieengineer]

@locomobile - there is no charge pump signal from Masso. The charge pump is a safety protection system for PC based solutions as the BIOS and Windows drivers try various combinations to detect the parallel port and/or devices connected to the parallel port (for example the old parallel port ZIP drive). The idea is only a CNC program (Mach 3 or similar) would be buzzing an LPT port pin at 10 kHz.


The "Spindle Pulse" would be the Pulse Width Modulated spindle speed (Masso can drive the spindle speed output to be 0-10V or PWM, configurable from the F1 screen).

 

[locomobile]

Some success, eventually found the correct setup to enable charge pump without an external signal

Trial axis worked immediately, others should be fine hopefully along with limit switches when I get time

One last question I have two pins for spindle, Syil manual says one for step other for direction, Mach3 uses the attached settings based on CW & CCW with PWM

Which number spindle connections and what settings under spindle would be a good starting point?

Thanks again and in anticipation for your help

David

 

[zombieengineer]

@masso-support - Documentation issue (Spindle Control - PWM)

On the Spindle Control documentation page it states the following:

---

INFORMATION: When running in PWM mode MASSO outputs Uni-polar PWM signals.

Pin 2 Motor Direction Clockwise / PWM Output

Pin 3 Motor Direction Counter Clockwise / PWM Output

---

Does this mean after a M03 command (Motor on - Clockwise) that Pin 2 will have a PWM output and Pin 3 will be low?

Similarly after a M04 command (Motor on - Counter Clockwise) that Pin 2 will have a PWM output and Pin 2 will be low?

Or do both Pin 2 & Pin3 have the same PWM output signal? (insufficient detail)



@locomobile - Suspect connect Masso Spindle Control Pin 2 to "Spindle Pulse"

Connect Masso Spindle Control Pin 5 to "Spindle Direction"

Connect Masso Spindle Control Pin 4 to GND

 

[locomobile]

Thank you ZombieEngineer for your suggestion, unfortunately it did not work

If I take Masso spindle pin 2 to CW PWM pin (aka step pin) two different things can happen

If set to PWM in spindle preferences spindle always runs at full speed no response to M3, M4 or M5

If set to VFD in spindle preferences spindle runs at full speed, but can turn on and off with M3 and M5

As the original control was by parallel port (max5 volts) could this be because Masso is Max 10 volts to VFD, though this does not explain PWM behaviour

Went back to Smoothstepper and confirmed only a lead to the CW PWM pin (aka step pin) and ground is needed to switch spindle on and off and control CW speed. Mach3 spindle settings can be PWM or step and direction both work

Any thoughts and solutions would be appreciated

David

 

[zombieengineer]

@locomobile - I would need to borrow an oscilloscope to understand how Masso implements PWM.

For people that have a bit of electronics background PWM sounds like a simply percentage duty cycle (25% on / 75% off square wave => 25% speed). However for RC servos (used in model planes, cars, etc) it is the width of the pulse that matters (1.0 to 3.0 milliseconds maps to 0 to 100%, with pulses occurring every 100 to 200 milliseconds).

 

[locomobile]

Hi ZombieEngineer

Just purchased a cheap 0- 10v to PWM converter from Amazon that outputs 2KHZ-20KHZ for PWM but at only 5 volts, for 12 it is worth a try. I could use Masso pin 1 (0 to 10 volts) for the input

I wondered if the Masso PWM signal voltage is the same as the Masso DC voltage which in my case is 12 volts

I will post how I get on or the results of any other posted suggestions

Thanks

David

 

[zombieengineer]

@locomobile

Give the voltage to PWM converter a try.

Under the hood the Masso has at least two separate voltage regulators, a switch mode 5V regulator which drives the bulk of the outputs and a secondary 3.3V regulator for the processor core.

 

[locomobile]

An update

I have discovered that if you use Masso spindle pin 2 and the common ground it kind of works! The problems is it works in reverse!

With PWM set in F1 and frequency at 4000 with 5000 rpm at 100% output you get full speed at S100 and zero at S5000. Changing M3 pin low to high does not change this

I am trying to get some oscilloscope tracings for Masso and the Smoothstepper, will post if any are useable

Does anyone know if it is possible to reverse the situation

David

 

[locomobile]

ZombieEngineer

Attached pictures of 20% duty cycle from Masso, Smoothstepper (not very good quality) and the Mach3 manual

I am not sure why it is working back to front (post12 above)

David

 

[zombieengineer]

@locomobile

If you go to the F1 configuration screen the first two outputs should be:

• Spindle - CW
  
• Spindle - CCW
  

Select each entry and press space to invert the status. With any luck this may actually invert the duty ratio.

PS - You may have noticed the @username - this results in a "mention" which sends an e-mail to grab a users attention.

FYI - In Australia we are coming up to the Christmas / New Year shutdown period (3 public holidays in a 2 week period at the height of summer - guess how much work gets done during this time?)

 

[locomobile]

Hi ZombieEnginee

No Christmas in the UK this year, think we may be in a total Covid lockdown by then!

Had tried (post11) your suggestion to invert output pin but called in M3 not spindle - CW, sorry for confusion

Anyway success with the PWM converter, no really documentation with it but now have a fully controlled spindle (CW only) after some fiddling about. Would need a second for CCW

Basically required a N-P-N signal not a P-N-P signal

If Masso could look at this so PWM signal was more configurable

You may be interested in one of my earlier projects www.locomobile.plus.com

Regards

David

 

[locomobile]

Thanks to Masso support for the solution to the reverse speed control
Positive switching will reproduce the same output as Masso spindle terminals 2,3

Were as Ground switching produces the reverse of Masso spindle terminals 2,3.

See attached sketch

Use ground switching (Masso spindle terminals 4,5) to fix the "backward" speed control when using parallel port pin2

I now have a fully working machine, four axes, homing, spindle speed control, tool length sensor and probing (last two connected directly to Masso) plus a fifth axis and driver connected directly to Masso

I think if anyone has a machine using Mach3/4 or LinuxCNC via a parallel port Masso can provide a very simple upgrade path that avoids rewiring the entire machine

If I can help anyone with a similar project I can try

David