THC s that work with Masso?

[segoman-designs]

With Masso s No Show on a promised integrated digital THC that was posted over 1-1/2 years ago here:

Quote from MASSO Support on December 18, 2018, 10:56 pm

"That's great @ross and we have also been hearing about too many issues with PROMA, need to get away from PROMA ASAP. Our DTHC design with optically isolated signals that we have been working on for some time now is nearly done, we are just getting the new units made and starting trials on some client machines very soon."

Jatinder what happened to this? Your posts led me to believe you were on top of the THC game which is why I designed my build around your system and purchased it.

The documented working THC s on the forum are Ross with his Proma unit and Lilow with his stand alone unit. There are many failed attempts with the Price units that has good reviews with other CNC controllers on various sites.

Does anyone have any input with the the PlasmaSensOut unit?

PlasmaSensOut - torch height controller - Polabs Torch height controller

Torch height control system Plasma SensOut is a universal optoisolator precise THC, which can be used with most CNC controllers on a market.

www.poscope.com

This controller is relatively new to the game and upgraded from USB type connections to fiber optic cabling to link the sensor & the control unit. This allows the controller to be mounted at the console for adjustments on the fly and isolation of noise at the plasma box.

Post up what you have that works or what did not work because as you know without a properly working THC the plasma table is wasted $$ and space in the shop.

Thanks for your input.

 

[lilow]

Thanks for the mention SegoMan Designs.

At the moment I have failed get it working completely with Masso, but at one stage I did get some response to the up / down signals.

Then lost these signals.

It's been a trying 2 weeks, but found a discrepancy at the input power to the comparator board.

This could have been the issue when the signals were lost.

I found this while trying to refit the standalone that had been working for 22 months with no issues.

I will do some more testing and try again soon.

Cheers.

 

[lilow]

SegoMan Designs.

I just dragged out another THC purchased but never run.

Actually I have 2.

These put out Arc OK, Up, Down signals.

So lets have a look and see if they will do real time Masso.

I will set one up and get it working on the test bed.

It is advertised as to work in Mach3 and another.

I think the reason for no development is that no time has been spent in this area.

You cannot build or modify what you haven't done before.

It comes down to the experience.

The experience others will go through with THC can tear your hair out.

I'll set this up.

Cheap as chips, $150 US, can afford to stuff these up.

Not like my price for a Masso.

Cheers.

Link to it.



User manual.

g

 

[lilow]

Got some power now.

Good start.

Lets start looking at the manual.

Cheers.

 

[segoman-designs]

Dingo Wrangler to the rescue again!

Still awaiting Jat's side of the story.



Thanks Mate!

 

[lilow]

After blowing something up, No wires were assigned.

THC 3T sent me another board with wiring marked.

This after there were no instructions of where the wires went.

He sent me another one with everything itemised.

Worth a try.

Cheers.

 

[segoman-designs]

They offer a Hypertherm unit w/ pot and no divider board for 120 US

 

[lilow]

Over the next 2 weeks I will go over everything done.

I'm starting to believe that Masso has let us all and those down in the Plasma world.

What could have been a great situation, has let down by not accepting what others are doing, but pressing on with touch screens, etc.

And not listening to the public.

It was designed after the Fanuc CNC,

Not what many people want.

We as a buyer just need simple things like a THC.

Many advisers to this forum do not know the intricacies of how a Plasma situation works.

It's even a bigger pain with Tig welding.

Ditto.

That's it from me, will just keep plugging along.

A comment from would be good.

Cheers.

 

[segoman-designs]

I'm thinking this forum is hell on sleeping patterns as well, If I want live feed back it's up late at night.

I just inserted some M62/M63 commands in my test G code and have that working, curious to see the results of the ROBO T3T unit.

 

[breezy]

Quote from SegoMan DeSigns on March 15, 2020, 7:21 pm

I'm thinking this forum is hell on sleeping patterns as well, If I want live feed back it's up late at night.

I'm sorry that we live on the other side of the world, even upside down to the majority of people. But that's what happens when you buy Australian made products.

Quote from Lilow on March 15, 2020, 7:00 pm

Many advisers to this forum do not know the intricacies of how a Plasma situation works.

We are just users of the product like you are! I reply to questions on this forum because I want help people just like they helped me when I was setting up the MASSO for the Bicton Men's Shed, which is a community based group that provides a place for men to go to talk and learn from other men. My background is electronics and computers (Telstra), retired (made redundant) for the last 18 years. My interests lie in CNC routers. So I know nothing about Plasma and I have said so when answering questions that are about electronics related to Plasma. I'm still following your project because I would like to learn more about Plasma.

Regards,

Arie.

 

[cncnutz]

Here is a video of a Proma in action with Masso. While I realize that some people don't like the Proma 150 it does work.

Summary of how the interface between Masso and THC works.

Masso set to Proma 150 in the F1 screen and the M667 Gcode instruction is issued to bring the Z axis height under Masso control.

1. M03 instruction issues to turn on Plasma
   
2. Arc strikes and the Arc ok signal changes to High on Masso. This then changes the Plasma status to on and the Gcode continues. After the Plasma changes to on the Arc ok is not used until the plasma is turned off (M05). Even if the Arc ok signal goes Low it will not affect the Up/Down movement of the axis until the the plasma is turned off and restarted.
   
3. Up signals from the THC set as High on Masso will move the axis up
   
4. Down signals from the THC set as High on Masso will move the axis down
   
5. Is both Up and Down signals are High at the same time the axis will not move until there is only one of them is present at which time it will move in the direction indicated.
   
6. If both Up / Down are low The axis is in position and will not move.
   

In my testing using a momentary switch to provide the up / down signal I could not operate and release the switch fast enough to beat Masso. It moved the Z axis every time though I could sometimes beat the screen refresh time. The Z axis would move but it was too quick for the screen to register the Up or Down signal.

The interface and signal protocol is very simple and should work with any THC that uses this protocol.

In the video you can see the Proma signals and the Masso response with positioning changes. There is even a misfire of the Plasma which is recovered after Masso goes into the alarm status and the air is stopped. Due to the high humidity where this Plasma is located this can sometimes be a problem with the arc not able to strike. Fortunately the recovery is as easy as the press of a button. A big Thank you to Ross for your help and shooting the video for this.

Cheers Peter

 

[masso-support]

right now MASSO only supports UP and DOWN type THC control with PROMA 150 and if a THC system gives same UP/DOWN signals then that will also work with MASSO.

 

[lilow]

Breezy.

Thanks for letting us know your background.

I tried to get into training with the old PMG department.

We appreciate all your input.

Maybe yourself along with Peter @ CNCnutz could have a look at the THC3T-02 user manual and advise on the wiring to the Masso.

It looks like the Z axis S- and D- along with a 5v go directly into the THC3T-02 board.

Then the board selects the speed of operation once things are triggered ?

I'm in Shepparton, Vic.

Cheers.

 

[breezy]

@lilow

It looks like the Z axis S- and D- along with a 5v go directly into the THC3T-02 board.

Don't know where you found that in the manual?

Maybe yourself along with Peter @ CNCnutz could have a look at the THC3T-02 user manual and advise on the wiring to the Masso.

To me you would wire it up the same as Proma Compact THC 150 with the proviso that Ross put out that the power supply for the Robot3T is separate from MASSO's supply.

Regards,

Arie.

 

[Ross]

Yes Arie, I have the same thought!

looking at the THC3T-02 user manual it looks the same as the Proma 150 and it can be wired as the same way to the Masso.

Very simple if you follow my wiring diagram.

Ross.

 

[lilow]

Thanks Breezy.

Not sure about wiring the same as Proma.

As you setup the S- and D- with a 5 volt input into the THC3T-02.

I just sent this back to SegoMan Designs via email.

This THC3T-02 doesn t work in Masso.

You take the S- and D- with a 5 volt from Masso into the THC3T-02.
You might need as Breezy suggested at one stage, all PS outputs negatives used should be connected together.
Whether it be 24, 12 or whatever.
When the relay is activated for THC3T-02, it overrides any Masso commands.
You should get Arc Ok / In Position ( this would be shown in F2 screen ).
As Masso is not looking for anything like a M667.

So it will get the Arc OK signal.
As Masso has is not been programmed into the file running the Z running 3D, and relying on the Up / Down signals after the M667.

Except for the initial zero point, G92, it wouldn t know.
It s a sneaky way.
I think I have worked it out.
It could be a solution for getting something up and running.
With not much cost.

It could be a solution for not running a standalone unit.
Let me know what you think.

In Plasma cutting the Z remains constant, then according to changes of a predetermined value, the Z while move.

This is still connected to the Z with initial commands from Masso, but once a relay is hit The THC3T-o2 takes over.

Then after the same relay has been release it goes back to the Masso control.

Then raising the torch and moving on.

So simple.

Cheers.

 

[breezy]

Quote from Lilow on March 16, 2020, 6:26 pm

Not sure about wiring the same as Proma.

As you setup the S- and D- with a 5 volt input into the THC3T-02.

WHERE ARE YOU getting the S- & D- from????????????

The manual you posted in #13 shows that the unit outputs three signals

1. Arc OK
   
2. Up
   
3. Down
   

NOWHERE does it mention anything about connecting axis Step and Direction to it.

Regards,

Arie.

 

[Ross]

Arie, he might be looking at something like from this photo.

If so i am out of the game!

The photo he showed from #6 i think would be enough to get it working like my Proma diagram shows.

 

[segoman-designs]

Thanks for all the input guys,

ROBOT 3T has a multitude of options such as a divider card, step/dir out, up/down out, ohmic, capacitance and just the THC with a pot for the Hypertherm crowd.

The Proma unit appears to be the only unit that works with the Masso it by design has faults. The unit needs to be mounted on the plasma box to minimize noise to the controller, this makes on the fly adjustments difficult as most burn box's are isolated from the controller especially on a bigger table like mine. A lot of THC unit designs (Price & PlasmaSensOut) will have a separate sensor mtd to the plasma signal and a control box for the comm panel.

Masso has even acknowledged that the PROMA unit has problems and there is no documentation I have found on this or any other site that any of the other Arc Voltage type THC units work with Masso. It is becoming very CLEAR that Masso DOES NOT have a working PLASMA TABLE in their shop for R&D on the DTHC they claimed to have ready for beta testing in Dec 2018. Both Jat and Peter have ignored my request for updates on this unit. This only reinforces my comments and lack of faith in the Masso unit being a CNC Plasma controller.

We have a saying in the US called "Poop or Get Off The Pot" /// Masso stop marketing your products for use in the CNC Plasma field or provide us with your mythical working DTHC!

,

 

[lilow]

Thanks Breezy.

Sorry about that, there are 2 different types.

I went back through the orders from THC3T, I have the Up / Down models.

Which is wired back to the inputs.

I thought it was the S / D model.

Both images below.

Cheers.