Tool heights unreliable

[garrettw]

I'm hoping this is a bug that can be fixed or someone can tell me of some sorta unknown step i'm not taking.

I'm new to masso (only using it a few weeks) but not new to machining. Over the last couple weeks have had more crashes or could have been crashes on my machine with masso than i've on any other machine (this one included before masso was running it). The majority of issues stem from tool heights being wrong. I am using an import tool setter but after catching this on video I'd say that has nothing to do with it, and in my testing of it that unit has been pretty repeatable.

Uploaded this video (made it unlisted on youtube)...showing a tool that was touched off, value saved...then going back into my offsets and observing the value and watching it change before my eyes.

Any help or insight with this would be great as i've got a pile of lasted money in scrap tooling now from issues trying to run jobs.

 

[cncnutz]

Hi Garrett W

Could you please provide a little more information.

• What MASSO are you using G2 or G3?
  
• What software version are you using?
  
• Are you using the auto tool setter?
  
• Is your tool height correct for the first tool but wrong for the 2nd and subsequent tools?
  
• Can you provide a copy of your MASSO Printed settings file if you are using a G3?
  

In the past the biggest issue with tool height is that people change tools after homing MASSO and screw up the tool offset height measured by the auto tool setter.
The golden rule of the Auto tool setter is never change the tool unless instructed to do so by MASSO after you home the machine.
If you do change a tool and is wasn't asked for by MASSO immediately home the machine or the 2nd and subsequent tool changes will all be wrong.

This video may help

Cheer Peter

 

[garrettw]

Hi Peter,

This is a G3 running the newest software (released a few days ago via the new web portal) and I am running a tool setter. This problem happened a few times before the new software update so I don't believe it to be unique to the newest software.

Ive got a grasp on loading my probe or how to set tool heights on the machine...etc as i've run a few parts now all with a minimum of 1/2 a dozen tools or more. The issue is sometimes a tools height offset will change in the controller after being set to another number.

Please watch the video I provided where I show the tool table and the height of the tool shows one value, then when I double click on the tool it shows another. The issue I'm having is a tool height will be set via the tool setter, and I can run that a number of times in a row and get a repeatable number. Yet sometimes that tool when attempted to be used will cut in mid air or will attempt to crash in the part and if you look at the offset table you can see what I showed in the video with the tool offset CHANGING to a different and wrong number.

I can only assume this is some sorta programming error (memory overflow dumping...etc).

To repeat the tool setter is working and appears reliable, what is not reliable is the values it saves. Sometimes the values change before your eyes if you look at the table view vs if you click on the actual tool number to display where you could either manually set the value or auto zero if you had a tool setter.

 

[cncnutz]

Hi GarrettW

I did watch your video and while I did see the different offset between the F4 & tool screens I could not tell exactly what was going on.
While I admit that my tool offsets on both screens seem to always match I don't know if your settings are the same as mine or if you are even running the same software as my setup.

To get a better understanding of your setup I need your settings files please.
Your Printed settings file would be a good starting point.

Do you have a link to the tool setter you are using.

Regards
Peter

 

[garrettw]

Hi Peter,

I've included the requested settings text file below.

To clarify, the problem I'm having is sometimes immediately after setting a zero and other times after using a tool the height seems to change and this causes the the tool to either cut in mid air or to crash. This can visually be seen in the video where the tool offset seems to show one value (the value it should) then when clicking...it shows the true value that is driving the height offset of the tool currently. In the case of the video the tool started cutting in air mid job. I've started watching closely the values the tool setter outputs and confirming those with a surface plate and height gauge. So far all the it seems when the heights change on me they always change by a large amount (20-50mm).

I'm hoping yourself or others from masso can confirm there is no scenario where the tool offset should ever change or show different value on the main offset page vs if you click on an individual tool without the user typing in a new value or commanding a tool height to be set via a tool setter. It would seem to me, even outside of the context of whats going on in the video that should likely not ever be something that happens.

After breaking a number of more expensive end mills to this problem in the machine and destroying one tool holder I'd like to get this sorted asap.


Edit: seems I cannot upload the text file so i've copied and pasted it below:

MASSO Serial No: G3-7186
Mill 3-Axis v3.48

Settings file format: v2.20

==========General Settings==========
- Machine units: Inch
- Machine bed orientation: Standard
- Load 'autoload.nc' on power up:
- Disable Soft Limits:
- Disable Hard Limits:
- Enable cycle start on door close:
- Limit maximum feedrate:

==========Homing Settings==========
- Seq 1: X: 0 Y: 0 Z: 1 A: 0 B: 0
- Seq 2: X: 0 Y: 1 Z: 0 A: 0 B: 0
- Seq 3: X: 1 Y: 0 Z: 0 A: 0 B: 0

- X-Axis Direction Invert: Ticked
- Y-Axis Direction Invert:
- Z-Axis Direction Invert:

- Homing Feedrate: 30

- X-Axis Sensor Pull-Off: 0.010000
- Y-Axis Sensor Pull-Off: 0.010000
- Z-Axis Sensor Pull-Off: 0.010000

- X-Axis Position After Homing: 0.000000
- Y-Axis Position After Homing: 6.400003
- Z-Axis Position After Homing: 11.500007

- Request Home on startup:
- Request Home after E-Stop press:

==========Spindle Settings==========
- Encoder (Pulses per revolution): 100

- Spindle Control Method: VFD (0~10v)
- Spindle RPM at 10 volts: 5333

- Spin UP delay (milliseconds): 4000
- Spin DOWN delay (milliseconds): 2000

==========Lubrication Settings==========
- Lubricate after: 0(hr) & 10(min)
- Lubricate for: 0(min) & 3(sec)

==========Tool Changer==========
- Tool changer in use: 1: Manual Tool Change

- Tool clean air blast time (ms): 0

=============X-Axis=============
- Motor: Distance per revolution: 0.200000
- Drive: Pulses per revolution: 1600.000000
- Maximum Feedrate: 80.001739
- Acceleration: 50.000488
- Travel Minimum: 0.000000
- Travel Maximum: 14.500008
- Backlash: 0.000000
- Direction Invert:

=============Y-Axis=============
- Motor: Distance per revolution: 0.200000
- Drive: Pulses per revolution: 1600.000000
- Maximum Feedrate: 80.000045
- Acceleration: 60.000362
- Travel Minimum: 0.000000
- Travel Maximum: 6.400003
- Backlash: 0.000000
- Direction Invert:

=============Z-Axis=============
- Motor: Distance per revolution: 0.200000
- Drive: Pulses per revolution: 1600.000000
- Maximum Feedrate: 70.000076
- Acceleration: 35.000038
- Travel Minimum: 0.000000
- Travel Maximum: 11.500007
- Backlash: 0.000000
- Direction Invert:

==========Auto Tool Zero Settings==========
- Only auto tool zero when manually requested: Ticked

- Tool setter X position: 0.000000
- Tool setter X enable: Ticked

- Tool setter Y position: 5.294003
- Tool setter Y enable: Ticked

- Z safe distance to tool setter: 7.000004
- Tool zero feedrate: 10.275597
- Tool number to skip: 99

==========INPUTS==========
EStop: EStop, Invert: No
Encoder: Signal - A, Invert: No
Encoder: Signal - B, Invert: No
Encoder: Index, Invert: No
MPG: Dial Signal - A, Invert: No
MPG: Dial Signal - B, Invert: No
MPG: Select X, Invert: No
MPG: Select Y, Invert: No
MPG: Select Z, Invert: No
MPG: Select A, Invert: No
MPG: Select B, Invert: No
MPG: Resolution 1, Invert: No
MPG: Resolution 2, Invert: No
MPG: Resolution 3, Invert: No
Analog: Input 1, Invert:
Analog: Input 2, Invert:
Input 1: Z - Home Sensor Input, Invert: Yes
Input 2: X - Home Sensor Input, Invert: Yes
Input 3: Y - Home Sensor Input, Invert: Yes
Input 4: Probe Input Signal, Invert: Yes
Input 12: Tool Setter Input, Invert: Yes
Input 19: Cycle Start Button Input, Invert: No
Input 20: Cycle Stop Button Input, Invert: No

==========OUTPUTS==========
Spindle: CW, Invert: No
Spindle: CCW, Invert: No
Output 1: Coolant Flood, Invert: No
Output 3: Auxiliary Output 1, Invert: No
Output 4: Auxiliary Output 2, Invert: No
Output 5: Auxiliary Output 3, Invert: No

 

[garrettw]

I tried to run the same code again tonight (I believe this is the 10th time trying to run the same gcode to make this part.) I touched off all the tools again before I ran the code and even double clicked on each tool again after the height were saved to make sure none of them changed. This time around tool number 5 in my table changed mid run (this is the 6th tool to run in this particular program). I estop the machine when thankfully this time it added length rather than subtract so it was cutting air.

I recorded the video below when I then went back to recheck this tool:

I went back and reposted the code starting at this tool as Masso is too hard to start from a line of code unless its only a few lines back (cannot scroll and just select a line or see what number that line is if its already ran through a dozen or more lines of code before you stop it). Then re-touched off the tool which gave me the same exact value as is originally shown in the video above....at which point the tool went down and cut as expected.

 

[cncnutz]

Hi GarrettW

Thanks for the settings file information.
I now understand that you are not using the Auto tool zero feature on tool changes but are using tool holders with tools set at fixed lengths which you have measured.
That makes all the difference in the world and I can now simulate your problem. I ca now replicated a circumstance where the tool length of the first tool changed has it's tool length copied to that of the 2nd tool.

In your case the length perfectly matches the probe offset length so I suspect you had tool 5 file installed (3F 1/8) when you turn MASSO on and changed to the probe.
Subsequent tool changes don't seem to have this problem, only the first but this is a preliminary finding.

I think I have a temporary solution for you.
Can you please remove the tick from "Auto Tool Zero Enable"
I think this will stop the value changing on you. You will need to enable it if you want to measure another tool but turn it off again once that is complete.
See if this gets you back up and running and let me know. It goes without saying to keep a close eye on it until you are certain this solution works ok.

Let me know if this temporary work around works for you.

I will investigate this issue further and generate a fault depending on what I find and keep you updated.

Regards
Peter

 

[garrettw]

Hi Peter,

Thank you for the continued replies. I'll give your solution a test when I run the machine again this weekend but I don't think it is entirely what is going on.

Though the number it switches to in this instance and the video posted before is close to the length of the probe, you'll notice its not exact (keep in mind this machine is running in Inches (imperial) and not metric so that number is well over 100micron which is quite large. In addition to that, sometimes the number has been much shorter and other times much larger....and even a few times, its run a tool for an operation and then gone to run the same tool again (without turning the machine off or removing the tool) and the offset has changed causing a crash.

I do believe something screwy is going on, getting to the bottom of it would be great (for my sanity, and tooling budget - haha)

 

[cncnutz]

Hi GarrettW

Just wondering how things are going.
I did more testing and believe that the Auto tool zero enable is your problem.
I have reported my findings for further investigation.

Just wondering how your Sanity is going. Did disabling the Auto Tool Zero stop the problem you are having?

Cheers
Peter

 

[garrettw]

Sorry, I've only had a chance to do very minimal testing.... So far no issues turning it off, but it wasn't every single time before either so it's hard for me to say definitively.

We've been avoiding using this machine to get some parts out the door and after things slow down end of this week or early next I hope to dive back into this more.