Why no G76 threading?

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nemo1966

Nemo1966
Why no G76 threading? I tried asking on the support ticket system but I only got the reply "we use G32 for threading".

So why no G76?

I am upgrading my system from Mach3 and Masso looks great on the face of it, but then just little bits that are essential are missing, G76 for instance. At this point now I have to look at LinuxCNC, apparently this happens quite a lot.



Thanks

Steve
 
B

buschbwbusch

buschbwbusch
Why not just use Cam. Autodesk Fusion 360 is free u can thread all day. G code is G code. Masso is offering good service along with an extremely reasonably priced controller u won t get that from Linux or mach3. Plus Linux threading canned cycles are still different than say haas or fanuc
 
masso-support

masso-support

MASSO Support
Staff member
Thanks for your input guys and yes we will be working on this in the future, its just that due to the unexpected USB driver updates we are behind all development and this is something that we wanted to add including tapping cycles and much more.
 
N

nemo1966

Nemo1966
Quote from buschbwbusch on March 30, 2018, 8:47 am

Why not just use Cam. Autodesk Fusion 360 is free u can thread all day. G code is G code. Masso is offering good service along with an extremely reasonably priced controller u won t get that from Linux or mach3. Plus Linux threading canned cycles are still different than say haas or fanuc
Click to expand...

Autodesk Fusion is only free for 30 days AND since I have never used cam software then that would mean learning that as well - just so I can add a thread???

Mach3: Full PC with Monitor 60.00, Mach3 licence 150.00, BoB 20.00 = Total 230.00

LinuxCNC: Licence FREE, Mesa 5i25 100.00, Full PC 60.0, BoB 20.00 = Total 160.00

Masso: 300.00 + UK VAT and Import duty 158.00, Monitor 30.00 = Total 488.00 (then add 250.00 a year for Fusion???)

**** Full PC - Core Duo 3ghz cpu(s), 4gig Ram 22inch monitor

Reasonably Priced you say? and doesn't even support G76? See my point?

"Plus Linux threading canned cycles are still different than say haas or fanuc" - But at least they are there and if you wanted to convert the G-Code to HAAS or Funac it is a very simple operation to convert a single line of g-code. Tormach are now also using the LinuxCNC base for their PathPilot conversational proogramming.

Don't get me wrong I love the idea of the Masso, the idea is brilliant and when I first saw it I was gobsmacked, but then I saw the price... that dented my enthusiasm a bit, so I looked into it more and all the comments are the same, great hardware but the software is far too basic e.g only G32 threading.

However Mach3 threading is a laughing stock (great when it works but often fails) - hence needing to "Upgrade". 99% of my programs involve threads as well, but having to change hundreds of lines of G32 code as opposed to a single G76 is a definite no go. With G76 I can copy a single line into the G-Code, change a couple of parameters and hey presto completely new thread in seconds (no cam needed).

The basics needed for such a controller (lathe software) are:

G76 threading

Conversational G-Gode (Wizards): OD turning, ID turning, Threading, Taper OD (ID would also be nice), OD turning with radius.

OD Arc would also be a nice addition.

Conversational G-Gode (Wizards) are why Mach3 became so popular, easy to set up and then no need for CAM's on most projects, you could basically build up your shapes using the wizards, splice them together in g-code - sorted. I *think* LinuxCNC does this now and will splice them into the g-code at the touch of a button (researching LinuxCNC at present), it seems a little complicated to set up - but once it is set up then it is VERY powerful and real-time.

Again I love the idea of the Masso and if it had better software I would have bought it in an instant, but to go to all the expense and effort of producing such great hardware and then skimp on the software is madness. It's akin to buying a PC with 32gig Ram, i7 quad core 4.2ghz cpu and then running MS Dos 6.22 on it.

No offence is intended in this post, it started as a question about G76 and turned into constructive criticism.

Regards

Steve - UK
 
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buschbwbusch

buschbwbusch
If you call Bobcat they would sell u newer version of lathe for100$ probably. I do understand what your saying about the price of things... but what is your time worth. If you have a 2d drawing or solid model....u need to learn cam. U simply cannot get the same control from canned cycles you can from cam. BobCad lathe is very simple and powerful for the cost. It is easy to change posts to adapt to machines and u can save off features and reload them. You can get true part geometry... don t have to worry a ton about g41/42 issues as matter what hobby version of software u will have them. I can program by hand but then I realized it was a huge waist of my precious time. This wasn t a criticism either. Just trying to help. Masso is also new and working on development of many things... again if you have dealt with Linux cnc or Mach3 4 u will find that their support is basically only user forums. I have many retros under my belt as well and while I like Mach 3 because it is so open I mean you can even make custom GUI how cool is that, there is a steep learning curve and not a ton of company relaTed help. I mean look at us on a forum that Is actually monitored by the company supplying the hardware and software in one. Give it a little time Masso nailed a huge Niche for geeks like us.
 
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nemo1966

Nemo1966
I agree with all you are saying:- "Give it a little time Masso nailed a huge Niche for geeks like us." It's the time bit that is a problem, do people go with Masso and hope these features appear? Or go with a LinuxCNC where these features already exist?
 
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buschbwbusch

buschbwbusch
I dunno depends on your threshold.. I can promise u this though... BobCad ir other cam is a cheap investment that pays for itself a million times over. Linux cnc is great... if u are familiar with Linux. Tormachs path pilot is solid.... we have a 15l along with a 1100 pcnc. However it is glitchy as well and even they are continuously building the interface last I knew they dis not provide G7o g71 support. I would consider that to be a backbone of turning g code. Why? Because they have to get the product to market and make the $ that supports the software development. Tormach and Masso are similar in their approach to business. Last I heard Tormach was grossing over 1 mil a month. So as far as my threshold goes I believe in Masso the same way I believed in Tormach the first time I visited them 10 years ago when they were offering an 1100 Pcnc that ran on Mach 3 and was glitchy as hell. I do believe Masso when they say they are working on things. I think they just need to be up front and say it will be X months before that update. Maybe take pills about what to work on next etc. Just do a little better job of letting the public underneath the curtain a little. In my experience people will be patient if they can get honest frequent communication...just my 2 cents.
 
N

nemo1966

Nemo1966
On the video it says Wireless - but the docs say it is not implemented yet?

Also in the UK the import taxes are prohibitive. If I were to go down the Masso route I would get someone in Australia to send it me as a gift. I used to have a couple of mates over there.

Also does the spindle use 1 pulse per revolution or 1 pulse + multiple pulses?

Regards

Steve
 
masso-support

masso-support

MASSO Support
Staff member
Quote from Nemo1966 on March 30, 2018, 10:36 pm

Quote from buschbwbusch on March 30, 2018, 8:47 am

Why not just use Cam. Autodesk Fusion 360 is free u can thread all day. G code is G code. Masso is offering good service along with an extremely reasonably priced controller u won t get that from Linux or mach3. Plus Linux threading canned cycles are still different than say haas or fanuc
Click to expand...

Autodesk Fusion is only free for 30 days AND since I have never used cam software then that would mean learning that as well - just so I can add a thread???

Mach3: Full PC with Monitor 60.00, Mach3 licence 150.00, BoB 20.00 = Total 230.00

LinuxCNC: Licence FREE, Mesa 5i25 100.00, Full PC 60.0, BoB 20.00 = Total 160.00

Masso: 300.00 + UK VAT and Import duty 158.00, Monitor 30.00 = Total 488.00 (then add 250.00 a year for Fusion???)

**** Full PC - Core Duo 3ghz cpu(s), 4gig Ram 22inch monitor

Reasonably Priced you say? and doesn't even support G76? See my point?

"Plus Linux threading canned cycles are still different than say haas or fanuc" - But at least they are there and if you wanted to convert the G-Code to HAAS or Funac it is a very simple operation to convert a single line of g-code. Tormach are now also using the LinuxCNC base for their PathPilot conversational proogramming.

Don't get me wrong I love the idea of the Masso, the idea is brilliant and when I first saw it I was gobsmacked, but then I saw the price... that dented my enthusiasm a bit, so I looked into it more and all the comments are the same, great hardware but the software is far too basic e.g only G32 threading.

However Mach3 threading is a laughing stock (great when it works but often fails) - hence needing to "Upgrade". 99% of my programs involve threads as well, but having to change hundreds of lines of G32 code as opposed to a single G76 is a definite no go. With G76 I can copy a single line into the G-Code, change a couple of parameters and hey presto completely new thread in seconds (no cam needed).

The basics needed for such a controller (lathe software) are:

G76 threading

Conversational G-Gode (Wizards): OD turning, ID turning, Threading, Taper OD (ID would also be nice), OD turning with radius.

OD Arc would also be a nice addition.

Conversational G-Gode (Wizards) are why Mach3 became so popular, easy to set up and then no need for CAM's on most projects, you could basically build up your shapes using the wizards, splice them together in g-code - sorted. I *think* LinuxCNC does this now and will splice them into the g-code at the touch of a button (researching LinuxCNC at present), it seems a little complicated to set up - but once it is set up then it is VERY powerful and real-time.

Again I love the idea of the Masso and if it had better software I would have bought it in an instant, but to go to all the expense and effort of producing such great hardware and then skimp on the software is madness. It's akin to buying a PC with 32gig Ram, i7 quad core 4.2ghz cpu and then running MS Dos 6.22 on it.

No offence is intended in this post, it started as a question about G76 and turned into constructive criticism.

Regards

Steve - UK
Click to expand...

Thanks for the points and we also would like to speed up things, we had a major setback with the chips manufacturer stopping support on USB drivers and a lot of time went into fixing the USB drivers.

We have a few updates coming up with support for more tool changers etc and will also be trying to prioritise threading and tapping cycles.
 
masso-support

masso-support

MASSO Support
Staff member
Quote from Nemo1966 on March 29, 2018, 8:05 pm

Why no G76 threading? I tried asking on the support ticket system but I only got the reply "we use G32 for threading".

So why no G76?

I am upgrading my system from Mach3 and Masso looks great on the face of it, but then just little bits that are essential are missing, G76 for instance. At this point now I have to look at LinuxCNC, apparently this happens quite a lot.



Thanks

Steve
Click to expand...

So while the G76 cycles are released, cant you simply generate threading gcode using the MASSO threading conversational wizard?
 
N

nemo1966

Nemo1966
Yes I could - initially I was asking if G76 was going to be added, I see it is and as such I am satisfied with that aspect.

The two other areas that I am concerned about are Wireless connectivity and the spindle pulse endcoder. I appreciate that a single pulse is not good enough for threading (a Mach3 limitation). However my machine has the below system of encoders:

Encoder


As you can see it uses 3 pulses, I single pulse per rev and then two multiple pulse per rev. Will this work on Masso?



thanks

Steve
 
masso-support

masso-support

MASSO Support
Staff member
This is a perfect setup and will work with MASSO as the output will be A, B and Index signals like a proper encoder.



What machine is that?
 
masso-support

masso-support

MASSO Support
Staff member
We are just getting ready for the beta release of the main software and WiFi will also follow after that.
 
N

nemo1966

Nemo1966
Concerning the wireless - are you going to have facility to connect some type of antenna to the wireless card on the Masso? I ask because many people keep such controllers and attached electronics (stepper drivers etc) in cases that are usually made of steel. This would of course act like a Faraday cage and block wireless signals. Having an antenna (wire) that can be routed to the outside of the case would obviously help tremendously.



regards

Steve
 
N

nemo1966

Nemo1966
Quote from ECS on August 13, 2019, 5:21 am

@masso-support This is the post i was talking about.
Click to expand...

Still no G76 that I can see and the networking is practically all but useless - unfortunately
 
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