wiring the spindle relay to Masso G3

mtlchsr

mtlchsr

Mtlchsr
Still converting the Vertigo MX2 to Masso G3....... I cannot find in all the Q&A as well as documentation something a bit specific about getting actual router motor connected to Masso. Most info deals with VFD spindles. By this I mean getting a relay sorted to activate the spindle. I have a simple 240volt Makita router as the spindle with a relay to do something already existing in the MX2 frame (e-stop cutout maybe ) It (the Makita spindle) was always manually switched on and manually speed controlled. That is.. the Makita was seperately plugged into the wall socket (240V ac) and then manually switched on at the motor when you were about to start a job. The Makita unit has a rpm control button on the unit. The e-stop on original controller would stop the makita if activated.

My question is this, I know the 2 wires that go to the relay.... what do I do with them... do they both go to the 'Spindle Control' connector, if so what pins? I only need the same scenario with the conversion - or can Masso get the spindle to start/stop with start/stop of job... i.e. activate the relay to accomplish this (if I leave the switch on the unit on)

Is there a documentation page telling us what the orange pins do ?

Photo of relay box attached if that is any help in the equation.. (maybe it is not a relay at all but some other kind of electrickery ?)

Thanks
 

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mtlchsr

mtlchsr

Mtlchsr
Hello again, thanks for the reply, I did go through both the doco and the Q & A link before asking , the doco meant nothing at all to me and the Q&A dialogue did not seem to throw any light my way either.

What is a simple MDI command that would test/run the spindle to see if my wiring is correct... or is there a button to select? Don't want to load/run any files yet... that would be next after I have the spindle in a working state.

I will do a sequence of conversion post with 'How I got there' when I actually have it going.

Thanks again
 
breezy

breezy

Moderator
Besides Guy's answer, on the F2 screen you can click the Spindle CW button. As you are using a 240volt Makita router there is no need to add the S portion to the M3 command. Spindle Stop or M5 will turn off the CW pins on the spindle connector.
the doco meant nothing at all to me and the Q&A dialogue did not seem to throw any light my way either. also should add that the relay is a Schneider RXG 24vdc... is this compatable with the Masso ?
Click to expand...

The doco explains the pin out of the spindle connector, the Q&A was how to connect a solid state relay to MASSO, but as you have a 24vdc relay you need to connect one side to 24v+, the other to pin 5 and connect pin4 to 24v-. I assuming that you have 24 supply and that the contacts of the relay are rated for the current draw of the router.

Regards,

Arie.

PS. By the way, where are you located?
 
cncnutz

cncnutz

CNCnutz
MASSO Team
Quote from Mtlchsr on February 21, 2020, 4:16 am

also should add that the relay is a Schneider RXG 24vdc... is this compatable with the Masso ?
Click to expand...

NO

The Schnider relay will not run directly from any Masso G3 output. You will need an interface circuit of some description to make it work.

A better idea is to use a solid state relay which will run directly from Masso output, is optically isolated and can handle a higher load than the Schnider relay. Something like the one in the link below.

https://www.jaycar.co.nz/solid-state-relay-4-32vdc-input-240vac-40a-switching/p/SY4084

I did a diagram of how to connect it for you.

Cheers Peter
 

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breezy

breezy

Moderator
@cncnutz

Peter,

Is the optocoupler between pins 5 & 4 able to switch 24v?

If so then the Schneider relay should work, if connected as I suggested.

Regards,

Arie.
 
mtlchsr

mtlchsr

Mtlchsr
Much appreciated, will look into this... I tried to get some info on the relay last night after work... Schneider listed every model except the one I have would you believe..... I suspected it is not compatible.. Let battle commence..

Thanks, and will let you know outcomes.
 
cncnutz

cncnutz

CNCnutz
MASSO Team
@breezy

Yes the optocoupler can switch 24 volts however it can only pass a maximum current of 50mA. You would not want to run the output at maximum current so drop that to 30mA for added safety and you need to make sure you keep within the power ratings of the IC. The Back EMF generated when the relay is turned off will also need to be dealt with so a reverse biased diode will be needed across the relay coil so it does not destroy the optocoupler.

If we take inspiration from the cheap chinese optically isolated relay boards, we will see they use the same sort of optocoupler IC but they use a transistor circuit to drive the relay rather than direct driving the relay from the optocoupler output. Given that they will leave no corner uncut in the quest to save on costs we can be very sure that the direct driving of a relay from the optocoupler is not the way to go.

If you want to drive a relay from the optocoupler output then a simple Transistor driver circuit is the way to go. Easy to make but more work than connecting the solid state relay.

Cheers Peter
 
breezy

breezy

Moderator
Peter,

I had forgotten about the back EMF.

My age starting to show its been about 30 years since I designed electronic circuits. Only since the shed got the CNC router, I've had to think about it again.

The latter part of my working life was spent writing computer programs.

Regards,

Arie.
 
cncnutz

cncnutz

CNCnutz
MASSO Team
@breezy

I'm rusty myself Arie. It used to be that if you wanted a circuit you had to build it but these days you just buy something ready made for half the cost.

I very rarely build anything from scratch anymore.

Cheers Peter
 
mtlchsr

mtlchsr

Mtlchsr
Hi, Well... I have obtained and installed the new relay. I can jog around table with screen commands and with pendant. I can load a file made in Vectric aspire.... but that is about it. Several things seem wrong

Most of afternoon spent trying to find the obvious error - but to no avail. I will ask what seems most prominent first.

Y axis.... home and hard limit (the switch) is at machine back left.With file loaded and visible on screen the '+' position cursor is at top left of screen. If I move Y with pendant - to move towards me or to front of table it (the cursor) goes further to top of screen. If I 'invert' direction the machine just stays on '0.000' - even with soft limits disabled. Very confusing. If i try to run the file I get a 'Y axis limit ' red button. I have spent the afternoon trying to get it to work but to no avail... it will jog about the table but will not work with the file - I have changed origin on file in vectric and tried that. no go... ahhhhhh. What have I done wrong?
 
breezy

breezy

Moderator
Mtlchsr,

You have a G3 correct? Have you filled spare axis with dummy values?

Does the machine home correctly?

In the homing screen what have you got the home position set as?

Have you watched Peter's videos on homing & soft limits?

Before trying to run a program, test operation of the machine with commands in the MDI.

Having your homing position to the rear can cause problems with homing values and soft limits. I know because I had the Men's Shed machine set with the home at the back right corner, moving it to the standard front left fixed my problems.

Regards,

Arie.
 
mtlchsr

mtlchsr

Mtlchsr
Hello and thanks Peter and Arie.... screen shot attached.

Yes machine goes to home fine.

When machine is at home... all axis read 0:000 both sets, temp home and machine home

Yes have watched Peters videos numerous times. Very good, I think (heres the catch?) I have followed them to best of my ability. Also machine seems to function well doing a home and soft limits work ok if i try to run past them (i.e. the machine stops at the soft limits)

MDI - I would need some basic commands as not at all familiar with G Code MDI commands. Is there a basic list on the support somewhere? Not sure I have seen any.

I think that the machine will not go as it thinks it has to run backwards from where it is and it cant due to the limits, my problem is i cant seem to change it via 'invert' options. If I invert then the thing wants to 'home' Y towards front of machine where no limit switch is.
 

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mtlchsr

mtlchsr

Mtlchsr
Here is a trial run with a simple rectangle file.

I have set the X & Y out to 150mm on the machine bed. Set the temp home to 0:00 on all axis.

Upon 'cycle start' the Y moves backwards and stops... because 'Y soft limit alarm' activates. So I think it does have to do with co-ordinates. The Masso wants the machine bed 'home' at front left corner and runs files as though that was always the case.

The pendant functions so that when I turn the dial 'positive' (clockwise ) any axis moves away from '0.00' numericaly positive. i.e. Z will go down , X will move right, Y will move front - towards me . (Home is top left corner). I note that this Y movement does not correspond to the graphic schematic on the screen (to move '+' I need to click on the top button - or away from home point)
 
mtlchsr

mtlchsr

Mtlchsr
to clarify the last paragraph.. if i click on the '+' button the machine does respond by moving positively - towards me. It is just not intuitive schematically - unless machine home has to be front left corner!
 
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