Z axis not Zeroing

[hitman1131]

Hi All,

I have been using a MASSO G3 touch screen since release with almost no issues on a DIY open builds style router until this weekend.

I have homing sensors installed and automatic tool zeroing, again working without issues.

This weekend I:

1. Homed the machine on power up
   
2. Loaded in a job
   
3. Manually set the Z height to the material
   
4. Rewind and Run the job
   
5. Router moved to tool change position and accepts a new tool as requested and touches the tool zeroing plate.
   
6. Router moves to work origin and plunges 3mm lower then z height into the material.
   

I then try to manually set the new tool to the material height and it will not zero the z axis.

This has happened to 2 different projects entirely this weekend and now I am worried to use it as I am cutting 16mm aluminum.

 

[cncnutz]

Hi hitman1131

The usual reason for this is that you changes the tool after homing the machine without MASSO requesting a tool change.

If you change a tool without MASSO requesting a tool change you must rehome the machine or the 2nd tool change height and every tool change after it will be wrong.

Actual tool height is a calculation based on the Tool setter height, the tool length of the tool installed when the machine homed and the point that you called Z0
If you change any of these the heights will get screwed up and you will need to home MASSO again.

This video might help as it shows the correct way to deal with tool changed in a project.
Cheers Peter

 

[hitman1131]

Hi Peter,

Thanks for the reply. I don't believe this is my issue. In my list above I changed the tool after homing but only because it was requested via MASSO. Once changed it zeroed off to the tool setter.

I have been watching your videos all day trying to find out what I'm doing wrong all of a sudden. (Great videos by the way)



I just loaded a new project into the machine and didn't change tool since it already had the correct tool.

I homed the machine and then manually moved the x, y and z to the work piece and set the Zero's for all axis. (shown in attached pics)

However the Z will not zero. It will not write any lower value then 0.048.

 

[cncnutz]

Hi hitman1131

I have seen this before where the Z Zero button does not set to zero and can reproduce it by using the Tool edit function in the F4 tool table and probing a different tool from the one actually installed. This screws up the tool offsets and also prevents the Z axis from zeroing. I have created a ticket for this to be investigated.

It should not happen in the normal course of machining and now as you describe in the step by step description.

I cannot explain the 3mm discrepancy in height or how Z zero is now 0.048mm.
From your description you had only just powered up MASSO and not even got as far as machining.

Is there anything that you can think of that might have been left out of your description?
Can you share a copy of your printable settings file please. You will need to zip it up to post it on the forum.

Cheers Peter

 

[hitman1131]

Hi Peter,



Sorry for the Delay, weather has been terrible and the shed has been cold

I hope this is the correct file.



Cheers

Ash

 

[unlockedcomposites]

I am having what seems to be the same issue, so far the retrofit has gone well tool setter is set also

will go through toolchange EX. t2m6 through MDI (manual right now until i take the time to do the atc walktrough)

hit CTL-S to let it touch off

set Coordinates for g59 by bringing up g59 and zeroing when at desired location Will not set to z=0 (displaying -6 and change mm)

Double check g59 and it is correct

will go through toolchange EX. t1m6 through MDI (manual)

hit CTL-S to let it touch off

Bring it back to the same spot and it will display the same -6mm value

I have repeated this process and it sometimes will zero and sometimes it won't

I am interested in what this could be or if there is a temporary workaround even



everything else is working beautifully



invested in this topic,

Travis

 

[cncnutz]

Hi Travis,

I have been trying to reproduce this issue for a while now but have not come up with a method that does not involve using the F4 tool table.
Your method does not use the tooltable and I would like to understand the steps you take so I can reproduce it.
I'm not sure where G59 comes into it. Are you changing between G54 & G59 part way through the job?

Is there any way you can give step by step instructions on how to reproduce this from the point where the machine is turned on until the Z axis does not Zero?
I'm having a bit of difficulty following the steps you noted above.

Any help you can give to help with this would be greatly appreciated. Fixing it will be easy once we can reproduce it.

Cheers Peter

 

[unlockedcomposites]

ill see if I can reproduce it on video

 

[cncnutz]

Thanks Travis

That's much appreciated.
Of course now it will refuse to fail for you. ;-)

Cheers Peter

 

[unlockedcomposites]

Peter,

your not wrong... lol It behaved all day today... also hooked up the touch probe and was playing with that...

not to steer the thread of course, but it is along the similar lines.

when touching probe off in Z it keeps adding 0.002-0.006mm to the offset in a positive direction... is tis an effect of rounding in the resolution i am guessing?

tried all different speeds and feeds with the same results if probe is used a couple of times it doesnt really effect much but i was able to stack 0.500m of error just by touching off z axis repeatitively on the same location.

my wiring is an npn probe going through a solid state relay to make a pnp signal from positive on the inputs and input 13

even drilled out and pined my clamping sleeve to eliminate it as a variable lol

Wonder what i could do to eliminate that so i dont have to doubt my probe

Curious,

Travis

 

[cncnutz]

Hi Travis,

Don't panic about the probing cycle. 4.01 has a bug that adds 1 step per probing cycle which is what you are seeing. It has been fixed for the next release.
In normal machining it isn't noticed but if you repeatedly probe the same spot you will start to see this issue.
There will be nothing wrong with your probing setup.

It's pretty typical the way bringing out a camera fixes things.
Try hiding the camera and act causal around the machine. Lull it into a false sense of security.
I wonder if it is something in your Gcode File. Are you for instance using drilling cycles or some other programmed cycle.
These are things that my CAM software doesn't use.

Looks like I will have to put the popcorn back in the cupboard for time being.

Cheers Peter

 

[unlockedcomposites]

didnt get the Z zero issue fixed yet, i would say i encounter it every other time i set up a job.

my work around has been to through the mdi(t#m6) any other tool and then it usually will let me zero

 

[cncnutz]

Hi Travis,

Now that it is happening so frequently can you try and video the setup process from turning on MASSO until it won't zero for you.
I should only need to see the screen in the video and I should be able to work out what is happening from there.
You could narrate what you are doing on the machine but I shouldn't need to see the machine side of thing, just the MASSO screen.
I'm sure fixing it will be simple once it can be reproduced.
Cheers Peter

 

[mattmattyblue-com]

Hi,
I am having the same z zero issue. MASSO requests a z zero for a new tool. Home it. Looks like it is working but it retains the previous z zero position (from the previous job). The issue started with V3.51 (running a CNC router). I will try to manually z zero and see if that works. Made a little mess of my spoil board but luckily did not break the bit. I know this tread is a little old now but hoping there is a solution. Would very much to get back to a more efficient operational mode.

Thank you,
Matty

 

[cncnutz]

Hi Matty,

If memory serves the original bug reported was found and fixed.
Yours sounds like something new at least as far as this software version goes.

Could you elaborate on the steps required to reproduce this problem.

You mention zeroing the new tool and then you mention homing the machine.
Homing must be done first and homing after setting zeros will cause problems with the cutter height.

In the original problem pressing the Z button on the DRO to zero the axis cause it to put up a value other than 0
Is this what yours is doing?
If it is can you check the work offset and make sure it does not say +G92 next to it because this will cause the problem you mention as the temporary work offset is added to the current work offset to give the DRO value.
G92.1 will cancel a temporary work offset and the axis will zero again.

Cheers Peter

 

[mattmattyblue-com]

Hi Peter,
And thank you. I have the MASSO set to auto zero after it homes. I think I missed something with the recent software upgrade (it had been a while since I upgraded). In the prior software version when I zeroed to the table surface MASSO set it there. The new version seems to save my previous WCS when restarting (power off and then restarting the next morning). I can see the benefit of that but how do I get back to MASSO setting Z at the table without manually doing it. F2 screen shows G90. Feel like I am missing something simple???

BTW using a G2.

Thank you again,
Matty

 

[cncnutz]

Hi Matty,

The G92 would be seen below this next to the work offset G54 if it is set but that doesn't seem to be the problem here.
G90 is the normal mode when machining.

My biggest problem is I do not understand exactly what your problem is.
You home the machine and as part of the homing routine the current tool touches off on the tool setter.
I am unsure what it is that you want to do at this point.
How do you mean setting the Z height without manually doing it?
How did it work previously for you?

As you said the answer will be simple, It's the question that's the problem.
Are you talking about the probing?

Cheers Peter

 

[mattmattyblue-com]

Hi Peter, I am feeling dumb about this- sure I am missing something fundamental. Before the current software version, upon startup of the MASSO the previous WCS (from the night before) were not retained. I would start the machine, home and auto zzero. Set my XY WCS and go to town. Now if I had say Z at 50 the night before it is retained. Typically I don't want the previous days Z WCS just zero at the spoil board (where the auto zzero grounding block is located). Sometimes I need to set zero below the spoil board height so if I mess up and don't reset Z WCS in the morning it would be ugly.

I am not probing. G90 is shown.

I am embracing the dumb and appreciate you help

Matty

 

[cncnutz]

Hi Matty,

From what you are saying it sounds like the Z zero height after homing automatically matched the table height because that was the height of the tool setter.
If this is the case it was purely a quirk that you found and not a design feature.
It was never intended to be used that way.

The software change in version 3.48 stopped using temporary work offsets and applied the work offset directly into the work offset table.
This makes resuming after a power outage simple but also means the clever way you were using the tool setter to set Z height at start up will not work because work offsets are retained.

If for most of your projects you use the Table as your Z zero height I do have a suggestion.
Connect the tool setter to both the touch probe input and the tool setter input so that it can be used for both.
After homing and the Auto Zero is finished you can open the probing page and probe the Z height to set the tool to the table surface height.
The cutter will already be sitting above the tool setter. Just jog down closer to the tool setter and probe the Z axis height. Job done.
Make it a part of your homing process.

Hopefully I have understood the problem correctly.
Cheers Peter

 

[mattmattyblue-com]

Thank you so much Peter! And thank you so much for the suggestion of using the probe. I will do that. Sorry for the confusion. Kind of funny that my old way of setting zzero at the table worked perfectly so long. I would have bet money that I was using it as intended

Thanks again - you kick ass!
Matt